Discussion:
rasberry-pi as a z114
(too old to reply)
Gregg Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-19 07:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Hello!
Martin Truebner would you do us a favor and share how you managed to
convince a regular Raspberry Pi that it was a Z114 system? (And which
OS it runs via Hercules of course.)

I saw that mentioned on a thread concerning Hercules Console commands
via command line, and figured I'd open a new thread to ask this one.

I have a batch of them some doing nothing here, and am interested in
confusing one of them to do that. As for boxing it in Lego that's a
bigger stretch.
-----
Obviously one of you will be reading this with an audience, and one
from underwater, and still another with a statue or two watching him.
And any two will have other issues unrelated to those.
-----
Gregg C Levine ***@gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Martin Truebner Martin@pi-sysprog.de [hercules-390]
2018-07-19 08:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Gregg,

if you watched the video for at least 15 seconds you have a link to a
PDF that has more on hardware for the "system"

here it is for the lazy ones: http://pi-sysprog.de/z114.pdf

IBM had a feature in the "IBM Systems Magazine" in January 2015 -
which has even more about it/me.

Here is a link

http://ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/stoprun/stop-run/martin-trubner/

Your question what it runs: Debian then Herc then a very old DOS and
then CICS.

Why a very old DOS... I did try recent versions of CICS/TS. It took
forever to come up. Hence I experimented with older versions and I
am now running a 20 year old CICS (with an as old DOS) which comes up
within 5 minutes. Once it is up, it is very responsive.

For the fun of it I modified a DITTO version running on new CICS
only to run on that old CICS (it has a nice User-interface which even
z/OS-people can use). The hotspot (on my mobile) can accommodate 5
users- so the most I had (on conventions like the WAVV or SHARE where
enough mainframers are around) at the same time on the machine is 5
users- we never had any response time problems.

Martin

This signature can also be used inside a TARDIS
bote@larjem.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-28 21:14:49 UTC
Permalink
I've got some instructions for a Lego z10....but I think it's too small for a Pi to fit in. https://ibb.co/e7aR9T https://ibb.co/e7aR9T
Dave McGuire Mcguire@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-28 21:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@larjem.com [hercules-390]
I've got some instructions for a Lego z10....but I think it's too small
for a Pi to fit in.
https://ibb.co/e7aR9T
It's too bad none of you guys live anywhere close by. My REAL Z10 is
sitting here gathering dust. Need to find some people to put more hands
on this stuff..

-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-28 22:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Well, the last two guys we helped getting their used mainframe running
got hired by IBM. What parts do you need and what do you need
configured? IBM-Main can be a big help too.
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
Post by ***@larjem.com [hercules-390]
I've got some instructions for a Lego z10....but I think it's too small
for a Pi to fit in.
https://ibb.co/e7aR9T
It's too bad none of you guys live anywhere close by. My REAL Z10 is
sitting here gathering dust. Need to find some people to put more hands
on this stuff..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
------------------------------------
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http://www.hercules-390.org
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Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
Dave McGuire Mcguire@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-28 22:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Schwab ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Well, the last two guys we helped getting their used mainframe running
got hired by IBM.
Nice. But I'm not at all interested in getting hired by IBM. ;)
Post by Mike Schwab ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
What parts do you need and what do you need
configured? IBM-Main can be a big help too.
The only hardware that I'm missing is DASD. But my biggest limitation
here is time. So I guess what I'm really looking for is people to
physically show up and hack on stuff.

-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
'Dave Wade' dave.g4ugm@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-28 23:04:40 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 28 July 2018 23:38
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Re: rasberry-pi as a z114
Post by Mike Schwab ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Well, the last two guys we helped getting their used mainframe running
got hired by IBM.
Nice. But I'm not at all interested in getting hired by IBM. ;)
Post by Mike Schwab ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
What parts do you need and what do you need configured? IBM-Main can
be a big help too.
The only hardware that I'm missing is DASD.
Can you use some kind of SAN?
But my biggest limitation here
is time. So I guess what I'm really looking for is people to physically show up
and hack on stuff.
Does it count as work? Do I need an employment Visa? Mind you given the time its taken to get the P390 going perhaps I am not an ideal person....
-Dave
Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
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Dave McGuire Mcguire@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-29 06:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Dave Wade' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
The only hardware that I'm missing is DASD.
Can you use some kind of SAN?
It needs to be FICON for the IBM OSs.
Post by 'Dave Wade' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
But my biggest limitation here
is time. So I guess what I'm really looking for is people to
physically show up
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
and hack on stuff.
Does it count as work? Do I need an employment Visa? Mind you given the
time its taken to get the P390 going perhaps I am not an ideal person....
I'll do any paperwork you want if you're willing to work on it for
free. ;)

-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Grant Taylor gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net [hercules-390]
2018-07-30 22:06:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
It needs to be FICON for the IBM OSs.
I wonder how much work it would take to extend the LinuxIO (a.k.a. LIO)
SCSI Target to support FICON.

Link - LinuxIO - Fibre Channel
- http://linux-iscsi.org/wiki/Fibre_Channel
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-31 00:43:47 UTC
Permalink
I believe that was part of the initial port. It should install on
ECKD DASD just fine. Linux runs under VM and Hercules.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 5:06 PM Grant Taylor
Post by Grant Taylor ***@tnetconsulting.net [hercules-390]
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
It needs to be FICON for the IBM OSs.
I wonder how much work it would take to extend the LinuxIO (a.k.a. LIO)
SCSI Target to support FICON.
Link - LinuxIO - Fibre Channel
- http://linux-iscsi.org/wiki/Fibre_Channel
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
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--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
Dave McGuire Mcguire@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-31 00:48:18 UTC
Permalink
I think you and he are talking about two very different things.
"Target mode" allows a computer running Linux to be a SCSI target, i.e.
a disk drive. FICON is FibreChannel, which in turn is serialized SCSI
with a bunch of very nice housekeeping and traffic management features
added.

I assume IBM added their own commands atop the FibreChannel layer that
would have to be supported in target mode. But if someone were to do
that, a Linux computer (say, an embedded one within a large disk array)
would be able to be a FICON DASD array.

-Dave
 
I believe that was part of the initial port. It should install on
ECKD DASD just fine. Linux runs under VM and Hercules.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 5:06 PM Grant Taylor
Post by Grant Taylor ***@tnetconsulting.net [hercules-390]
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
It needs to be FICON for the IBM OSs.
I wonder how much work it would take to extend the LinuxIO (a.k.a. LIO)
SCSI Target to support FICON.
Link - LinuxIO - Fibre Channel
- http://linux-iscsi.org/wiki/Fibre_Channel
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-31 00:51:31 UTC
Permalink
Well, yeah. That is was a dasd storage subsystem is. It has a Linux
GUI to manage the disk space, create raid arrays, divide into ECKD
volumes, etc. IBM / Hitachi / EMC, etc.
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
I think you and he are talking about two very different things.
"Target mode" allows a computer running Linux to be a SCSI target, i.e.
a disk drive. FICON is FibreChannel, which in turn is serialized SCSI
with a bunch of very nice housekeeping and traffic management features
added.
I assume IBM added their own commands atop the FibreChannel layer that
would have to be supported in target mode. But if someone were to do
that, a Linux computer (say, an embedded one within a large disk array)
would be able to be a FICON DASD array.
-Dave
I believe that was part of the initial port. It should install on
ECKD DASD just fine. Linux runs under VM and Hercules.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 5:06 PM Grant Taylor
Post by Grant Taylor ***@tnetconsulting.net [hercules-390]
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
It needs to be FICON for the IBM OSs.
I wonder how much work it would take to extend the LinuxIO (a.k.a. LIO)
SCSI Target to support FICON.
Link - LinuxIO - Fibre Channel
- http://linux-iscsi.org/wiki/Fibre_Channel
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
Dave McGuire Mcguire@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-31 00:55:21 UTC
Permalink
I'm not talking about just a Linux GUI. I mean an entire Linux
system, and ONLY a Linux system, on just about any architecture. No
RS/6000s (like the Sharks have under the hood) with special and
expensive hardware, no proprietary software or firmware, no IBM license
keys, no "this is broken, call support" BS, etc. You have auditable
source code for everything, and are not beholden to IBM at absurd price
tags to get something to answer to a mainframe's FICON port.

-Dave
Well, yeah. That is was a dasd storage subsystem is. It has a Linux
GUI to manage the disk space, create raid arrays, divide into ECKD
volumes, etc. IBM / Hitachi / EMC, etc.
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
I think you and he are talking about two very different things.
"Target mode" allows a computer running Linux to be a SCSI target, i.e.
a disk drive. FICON is FibreChannel, which in turn is serialized SCSI
with a bunch of very nice housekeeping and traffic management features
added.
I assume IBM added their own commands atop the FibreChannel layer that
would have to be supported in target mode. But if someone were to do
that, a Linux computer (say, an embedded one within a large disk array)
would be able to be a FICON DASD array.
-Dave
I believe that was part of the initial port. It should install on
ECKD DASD just fine. Linux runs under VM and Hercules.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 5:06 PM Grant Taylor
Post by Grant Taylor ***@tnetconsulting.net [hercules-390]
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
It needs to be FICON for the IBM OSs.
I wonder how much work it would take to extend the LinuxIO (a.k.a. LIO)
SCSI Target to support FICON.
Link - LinuxIO - Fibre Channel
- http://linux-iscsi.org/wiki/Fibre_Channel
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-31 01:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Here is a PDF with a list of manuals. Looks like it dates from the
start of ESCON, so some of those manuals might have the information
you need. Hopefully there are similar FICON manuals out there. I
know EMC's hardware seem to be a few generations back from the
mainframe software.
https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19565-01/CRCM2135/CRCM2135.pdf
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
I'm not talking about just a Linux GUI. I mean an entire Linux
system, and ONLY a Linux system, on just about any architecture. No
RS/6000s (like the Sharks have under the hood) with special and
expensive hardware, no proprietary software or firmware, no IBM license
keys, no "this is broken, call support" BS, etc. You have auditable
source code for everything, and are not beholden to IBM at absurd price
tags to get something to answer to a mainframe's FICON port.
-Dave
Well, yeah. That is was a dasd storage subsystem is. It has a Linux
GUI to manage the disk space, create raid arrays, divide into ECKD
volumes, etc. IBM / Hitachi / EMC, etc.
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
I think you and he are talking about two very different things.
"Target mode" allows a computer running Linux to be a SCSI target, i.e.
a disk drive. FICON is FibreChannel, which in turn is serialized SCSI
with a bunch of very nice housekeeping and traffic management features
added.
I assume IBM added their own commands atop the FibreChannel layer that
would have to be supported in target mode. But if someone were to do
that, a Linux computer (say, an embedded one within a large disk array)
would be able to be a FICON DASD array.
-Dave
I believe that was part of the initial port. It should install on
ECKD DASD just fine. Linux runs under VM and Hercules.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 5:06 PM Grant Taylor
Post by Grant Taylor ***@tnetconsulting.net [hercules-390]
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
It needs to be FICON for the IBM OSs.
I wonder how much work it would take to extend the LinuxIO (a.k.a. LIO)
SCSI Target to support FICON.
Link - LinuxIO - Fibre Channel
- http://linux-iscsi.org/wiki/Fibre_Channel
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
Grant Taylor gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net [hercules-390]
2018-07-31 17:59:34 UTC
Permalink
I believe that was part of the initial port. It should install on ECKD
DASD just fine. Linux runs under VM and Hercules.
I'm talking about the other way around. Having Linux's LIO SCSI Targets
be the FICON attached DASD for a mainframe.

I'm specifically thinking about the people that own a mainframe but
don't have any DASD for it. People like Connor, and Jim, et al, who
want the ability to do something, anything at all that requires ECKD
DASD. (Insert applicable unsupported / non-production / etc disclaimers
here.)

I.e. I have a CEC and I need FICON DASD. It would be really nice if
Linux LIO SCSI Targets could be said FICON DASD.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laddie Hanus laddiehanus@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-31 23:20:22 UTC
Permalink
I believe that was part of the initial port. It should install on ECKD
DASD just fine. Linux runs under VM and Hercules.
I'm talking about the other way around. Having Linux's LIO SCSI Targets
be the FICON attached DASD for a mainframe.
I'm specifically thinking about the people that own a mainframe but
don't have any DASD for it. People like Connor, and Jim, et al, who
want the ability to do something, anything at all that requires ECKD
DASD. (Insert applicable unsupported / non-production / etc disclaimers
here.)
I.e. I have a CEC and I need FICON DASD. It would be really nice if
Linux LIO SCSI Targets could be said FICON DASD.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laddie Hanus laddiehanus@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-31 23:37:05 UTC
Permalink
For some reason my reply was chopped off
Trying it again

What you need to do this is a fiber channel card that gets the ficon packets and a Linux driver that processes the ficon packets. I worked on such a beast when I worked at StorageTek on the virtual tape product. The ficon spec is an ansi standard downloadable from t11.org. I am not at home to find it but look for SB3 specification. We used both Emulex and Qlogic cards. The documentation needed to implement was provided under a NDA agreement and not publicly available. This was in the 2003-2006 timeframe. At one time emulex had a open source driver that may expose how to talk to the card but it’s been a while since I looked at it.

Laddie Hanus

Sent from whatever device I am using.
I believe that was part of the initial port. It should install on ECKD
DASD just fine. Linux runs under VM and Hercules.
I'm talking about the other way around. Having Linux's LIO SCSI Targets
be the FICON attached DASD for a mainframe.
I'm specifically thinking about the people that own a mainframe but
don't have any DASD for it. People like Connor, and Jim, et al, who
want the ability to do something, anything at all that requires ECKD
DASD. (Insert applicable unsupported / non-production / etc disclaimers
here.)
I.e. I have a CEC and I need FICON DASD. It would be really nice if
Linux LIO SCSI Targets could be said FICON DASD.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-28 23:24:21 UTC
Permalink
Yep. Conner ended up getting some SCSI disk and an Escon / SCSI
adapter loaned to him and got his going. An ESCON / FICON array, even
being discarded, is going to be expensive.
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Schwab ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Well, the last two guys we helped getting their used mainframe running
got hired by IBM.
Nice. But I'm not at all interested in getting hired by IBM. ;)
Post by Mike Schwab ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
What parts do you need and what do you need
configured? IBM-Main can be a big help too.
The only hardware that I'm missing is DASD. But my biggest limitation
here is time. So I guess what I'm really looking for is people to
physically show up and hack on stuff.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
Dave McGuire Mcguire@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-29 06:06:15 UTC
Permalink
Yep. Conner ended up getting some SCSI disk and an Escon / SCSI
adapter loaned to him and got his going. An ESCON / FICON array, even
being discarded, is going to be expensive.
...which is why we don't have one. ;) I've got a lot of money coming
in, but I also have a lot of money going out...I won't have enough
disposable cash to drop on a FICON array anytime soon.

That said, we do have to Shark arrays here, but they lack drives, and
apparently they have a very large minimum number of drives to bring them
up. I'm also concerned about them possibly requiring drives with IBM
firmware, but I'm not sure about that. We really have no intention of
running them; they're just too large.

-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-29 07:39:56 UTC
Permalink
I believe you have to install 16 drives in the first two racks. Then
you can set up a Raid 5 for the capacity of 6 drives over 7 volumes
and the 8th is a hot spare. Then you split the space into individual
drives.
Post by Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
Yep. Conner ended up getting some SCSI disk and an Escon / SCSI
adapter loaned to him and got his going. An ESCON / FICON array, even
being discarded, is going to be expensive.
...which is why we don't have one. ;) I've got a lot of money coming
in, but I also have a lot of money going out...I won't have enough
disposable cash to drop on a FICON array anytime soon.
That said, we do have to Shark arrays here, but they lack drives, and
apparently they have a very large minimum number of drives to bring them
up. I'm also concerned about them possibly requiring drives with IBM
firmware, but I'm not sure about that. We really have no intention of
running them; they're just too large.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
Bert Lindeman bert.lindeman@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-29 06:51:37 UTC
Permalink
1. Do you know the internal free space?

2. Is the building instruction publicly available?

3. If a Raspberry Pi 1, 2 or 3 does not fit, a Pi Zero might do the trick:
    64 x 30 x 5 mm
    Plus the needed usb mini plugs for power and i/o

I am LEGO and PI interested ;-)
Bert
Post by ***@larjem.com [hercules-390]
I've got some instructions for a Lego z10....but I think it's too
small for a Pi to fit in.
https://ibb.co/e7aR9T
---
Deze e-mail is gecontroleerd op virussen door AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Martin Truebner Martin@pi-sysprog.de [hercules-390]
2018-07-29 07:19:24 UTC
Permalink
This thread started with a pointer to a Lego z114 with a rasperberry pie



I see no reason why a z10 (which is bigger) could not house one.

Martin
bote@larjem.com [hercules-390]
2018-07-29 10:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Just made the 3D model of the Lego z10 on Mecabricks for you: https://www.mecabricks.com/en/models/VzvMVXzyaJp https://www.mecabricks.com/en/models/VzvMVXzyaJp
Aside from the black, I'm quite colourblind, so the colours are all wildly inaccurate! :) You can make your own copy though on Mecabricks if you like.


Original instructions here:
https://ufile.io/amlx5 https://ufile.io/amlx5



And someones used this model to put a Pi into:
http://youtu.be/_A93kSNCZog
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