[hercules-390] Fujitsu magical z/Arch+

[[e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Hi Harold.

Since you're the developer most supportive
of S/380, I'd like to draw your attention to
these posts:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/80561
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/80624

Basically I think it would aid development
of Hercules if the 3-flavor-only (S/370,
S/390 and z/Arch) concept was to
disappear, and replaced with a much
more flexible setup.

Specifically it would be good if we could
hypothesize the existence of a Fujitsu
machine that had an architecture called
z/Arch+ that allowed every single IBM,
Fujitsu and OS/380 operating system
(ie including S/360) to run. Features can
be switched on or off via either hardware
switches or the operating system can
do it (like set CR0.10 or do a DIAG).

This Fujitsu machine was so popular
that it has 90% of the market share,
and people are clamoring to have
Hercules support it, as well as
supporting IBM z/Arch which has
10% of the market.

If you make an effort to support
z/Arch+ then I believe all other
things will flow down from there.
ie dumbing systems down to
either S/360 level or z/Arch
level as requested/required.

BTW, I am reminded of this:

Note to Joe: Even though I addressed
this to Harold, if people other than
Harold reply, I won't consider that to
be off-topic, as the message is meant
to garner comments from the world.

BFN. Paul.

[Kevin Monceaux [e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Specifically it would be good if we could hypothesize the existence of a
Fujitsu machine that had an architecture called z/Arch+ that allowed every
single IBM, Fujitsu and OS/380 operating system (ie including S/360) to
run.

Are there any Fujitsu OSes available for hobbyists to run on Hercules? I
know next to nothing about Fujitsu OSes, but would love to learn.

[[e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Specifically it would be good if we could hypothesize the existence of a
Fujitsu machine that had an architecture called z/Arch+ that allowed every
single IBM, Fujitsu and OS/380 operating system (ie including S/360) to
run.

Are there any Fujitsu OSes available for hobbyists to run on Hercules? I
know next to nothing about Fujitsu OSes, but would love to learn.

Not that I am aware of, but I don't think
you will gain much by running Fujitsu
MSP. From what I learnt via osmosis,
the only change they made was to
change the name of some modules
from Ixxxxx to Jxxxxx.

Your user programs will thus work
the same on both MVS 3.8j and
Fujitsu MSP, so I don't see much
point in using Fujitsu. There *is*
a point in running operating systems
from Jujitsu though. :-)

BFN. Paul.

[Gerhard Postpischil [e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]

Are there any Fujitsu OSes available for hobbyists to run on Hercules? I
know next to nothing about Fujitsu OSes, but would love to learn.

Not that I am aware of, but I don't think
you will gain much by running Fujitsu
MSP. From what I learnt via osmosis,
the only change they made was to
change the name of some modules
from Ixxxxx to Jxxxxx.

When I worked for Softworks, their software was popular in Japan and
elsewhere in the Orient. I'm quite certain that changes were required,
but I don't remember what they were (possibly minor differences in low
storage, the CVT, and similar control blocks not usually accessed by
application programs).

Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

[Joe Monk [e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Note to Paul: As Tony pointed out, John Hartmann's email was a policy edict.

Thus, we've all been wasting our breath.

Joe

Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Hi Harold.
Since you're the developer most supportive
of S/380, I'd like to draw your attention to
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/
conversations/messages/80561
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/
conversations/messages/80624
Basically I think it would aid development
of Hercules if the 3-flavor-only (S/370,
S/390 and z/Arch) concept was to
disappear, and replaced with a much
more flexible setup.
Specifically it would be good if we could
hypothesize the existence of a Fujitsu
machine that had an architecture called
z/Arch+ that allowed every single IBM,
Fujitsu and OS/380 operating system
(ie including S/360) to run. Features can
be switched on or off via either hardware
switches or the operating system can
do it (like set CR0.10 or do a DIAG).
This Fujitsu machine was so popular
that it has 90% of the market share,
and people are clamoring to have
Hercules support it, as well as
supporting IBM z/Arch which has
10% of the market.
If you make an effort to support
z/Arch+ then I believe all other
things will flow down from there.
ie dumbing systems down to
either S/360 level or z/Arch
level as requested/required.
http://youtu.be/Tsdmqhn50uM
Note to Joe: Even though I addressed
this to Harold, if people other than
Harold reply, I won't consider that to
be off-topic, as the message is meant
to garner comments from the world.
BFN. Paul.

[[e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Post by Joe Monk ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Note to Paul: As Tony pointed out, John Hartmann's email was a policy edict.
Thus, we've all been wasting our breath.

You never know. Harold might make
another fork! <wicked grin> :-)

BFN. Paul.

[Harold Grovesteen [e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]

Post by Joe Monk ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Note to Paul: As Tony pointed out, John Hartmann's email was a policy edict.
Thus, we've all been wasting our breath.

You never know. Harold might make
another fork! <wicked grin> :-)
BFN. Paul.

No. Harold will not be making another fork.

Harold

['Dave Wade' [e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Not accepting PRPQs then?



Dave



From: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 11 January 2017 02:58
To: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Fujitsu magical z/Arch+








Note to Paul: As Tony pointed out, John Hartmann's email was a policy edict.



Thus, we've all been wasting our breath.



Joe



On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 6:54 PM, ***@yahoo.com.au <mailto:***@yahoo.com.au> [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:



Hi Harold.

Since you're the developer most supportive
of S/380, I'd like to draw your attention to
these posts:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/80561
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/80624

Basically I think it would aid development
of Hercules if the 3-flavor-only (S/370,
S/390 and z/Arch) concept was to
disappear, and replaced with a much
more flexible setup.

Specifically it would be good if we could
hypothesize the existence of a Fujitsu
machine that had an architecture called
z/Arch+ that allowed every single IBM,
Fujitsu and OS/380 operating system
(ie including S/360) to run. Features can
be switched on or off via either hardware
switches or the operating system can
do it (like set CR0.10 or do a DIAG).

This Fujitsu machine was so popular
that it has 90% of the market share,
and people are clamoring to have
Hercules support it, as well as
supporting IBM z/Arch which has
10% of the market.

If you make an effort to support
z/Arch+ then I believe all other
things will flow down from there.
ie dumbing systems down to
either S/360 level or z/Arch
level as requested/required.

BTW, I am reminded of this:

http://youtu.be/Tsdmqhn50uM

Note to Joe: Even though I addressed
this to Harold, if people other than
Harold reply, I won't consider that to
be off-topic, as the message is meant
to garner comments from the world.

BFN. Paul.

['John P. Hartmann' [e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Have a look in issues 183 and 185. Perhaps I changed my mind. There
seems to be momentum behind ideas that have been brewing for a long time.

Post by 'Dave Wade' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Not accepting PRPQs then?
Dave
*Sent:* 11 January 2017 02:58
*Subject:* Re: [hercules-390] Fujitsu magical z/Arch+
Note to Paul: As Tony pointed out, John Hartmann's email was a policy edict.
Thus, we've all been wasting our breath.
Joe
Hi Harold.
Since you're the developer most supportive
of S/380, I'd like to draw your attention to
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/80561
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/80624
Basically I think it would aid development
of Hercules if the 3-flavor-only (S/370,
S/390 and z/Arch) concept was to
disappear, and replaced with a much
more flexible setup.
Specifically it would be good if we could
hypothesize the existence of a Fujitsu
machine that had an architecture called
z/Arch+ that allowed every single IBM,
Fujitsu and OS/380 operating system
(ie including S/360) to run. Features can
be switched on or off via either hardware
switches or the operating system can
do it (like set CR0.10 or do a DIAG).
This Fujitsu machine was so popular
that it has 90% of the market share,
and people are clamoring to have
Hercules support it, as well as
supporting IBM z/Arch which has
10% of the market.
If you make an effort to support
z/Arch+ then I believe all other
things will flow down from there.
ie dumbing systems down to
either S/360 level or z/Arch
level as requested/required.
http://youtu.be/Tsdmqhn50uM
Note to Joe: Even though I addressed
this to Harold, if people other than
Harold reply, I won't consider that to
be off-topic, as the message is meant
to garner comments from the world.
BFN. Paul.

[[e-mail] [hercules-390]]

Have a look in issues 183 and 185. Perhaps I changed my mind.
There seems to be momentum behind ideas that have been
brewing for a long time.

- - - old notes snipped - - -

In: https://github.com/hercules-390/hyperion/issues/185

"The configuration will determine which instruction is issued.
For example, ALC (opcode e398) will be implemented by alc-rxe
in any configuration that does not include long displacement
(this includes SIE ESA under z); and as alc-rxy in a
configuration that includes long displacement."

Logically, is there ever a true reason to ignore those eight bits?
Other than your comment about a severely broken SIE,
it doesn't appear that IBM ignores those 8 bits.
And I certainly want all upward compatible features.

Defaulting to using all bits on an instruction might be more
reasonable with the option to butcher the system available?
i.e. Normally, don't ignore those 8 bits.

Same for S370-24bit and S370-31bit instructions ISKE, RRBE,
SSKE, and TB. For the plus system, that is the address
should always be treated as 31 bits unless some butcher
Hercules configuration file option is exercised.
i.e. Normally, don't ignore those 7 bits.

It's a few years old, but:
In: SA22-7832-08.zArch.Principles.of.Operations.Aug.2010.pdf
Page: xxxviii

"All previously existing format-RSE and for-
mat-RXE instructions are changed to be of
formats RSY and RXY, respectively, by use
of a previously unused byte in the instruc-
tions."

If I put bits in an instruction, I would want them used.
Old rules to ignore them from a previous millennium
are what should be ignored.
Ignore the dead obsolete rules, so do not ignore the bits.
CR0.10 and PSW.31-39 are another example.
That is what is delaying productivity.