CTCI-W32 and Microsoft loopback adapter

Discussion:

Victor Zhang

2003-09-10 14:21:34 UTC

Hello Fish and others,
I am using windows XP professional and Microsoft loopback adapter to
test CTCI-W32 working,as indicated in previous thread "CTCI-WIN32
can't ping from guest os to host os",I can't get any ping response
from host adapter using Microsoft adapter, Fish's test program shows
a lot of ignored packets,and there is no RECEIVED packets for
loopback adapter,only sending packets,no ICS is enabled,so I am
totally confused by this problem,I have the following questions,hope
any experts here can help me:
1.Could you give me some information about Microsoft loopback
adapter,why is there only sending packets,no received packets? Is it
normal? Even if I ping the adapter,get response from it,still no
received packets.
2.If anyone here using Microsoft loopback adapter has the same
problem as me? I will test using real NIC tomorrow.But I need anyone
using loopback adapter to confirm to me if the problem is specific
to my installation.
Fish,I'll send a private email to you with debug information
attached,please help me debug the problem.
--
Best regards,
Victor

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Seeker/SP

2003-09-10 16:04:10 UTC

Permalink

I am using loopback in my notebook running WinXP, I had to route de Guest
through the loopback to reach it.

Example:
LOOPBACK IP = 192.168.0.1
Guest under WinXP = 192.168.0.2

route -p add 192.168.0.2 mask 255.255.255.255 192.168.0.1

Julio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Zhang" <zsl_hercules-k+***@public.gmane.org>
To: <hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:21 AM
Subject: [hercules-390] CTCI-W32 and Microsoft loopback adapter

Post by Victor Zhang
Hello Fish and others,
I am using windows XP professional and Microsoft loopback adapter to
test CTCI-W32 working,as indicated in previous thread "CTCI-WIN32
can't ping from guest os to host os",I can't get any ping response
from host adapter using Microsoft adapter, Fish's test program shows
a lot of ignored packets,and there is no RECEIVED packets for
loopback adapter,only sending packets,no ICS is enabled,so I am
totally confused by this problem,I have the following questions,hope
1.Could you give me some information about Microsoft loopback
adapter,why is there only sending packets,no received packets? Is it
normal? Even if I ping the adapter,get response from it,still no
received packets.
2.If anyone here using Microsoft loopback adapter has the same
problem as me? I will test using real NIC tomorrow.But I need anyone
using loopback adapter to confirm to me if the problem is specific
to my installation.
Fish,I'll send a private email to you with debug information
attached,please help me debug the problem.
--
Best regards,
Victor
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Fish

2003-09-11 01:23:35 UTC

Permalink

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Forgive me, but you need to be a little bit more specific for me
here, because it's not completely clear (i.e. obvious) (to me anyway)
which WAY the ping is failing.

Pinging from your Windows host (Command Prompt window) to the
Hercules guest (MVS?) works okay? Yes? No?

Pinging from your Hercules guest (MVS?) to your Windows host fails?
Yes? No?

Post by Victor Zhang
Fish's test program shows
a lot of ignored packets,

That's normal. Since the WinPCap device driver (which CTCI-W32
(TunTap32, etc) uses to access your actual network adapter) is a
packet sniffer, it sees ALL packets that your network adapter happens
to see, even ones for other people too (since FishPack (CTCI-W32)
places your network adapter into "promiscuous" mode). Thus, some of
the packets that are returned to TunTap32 are dutifully ignored since
they're packets for other people and not for your Hercules guest
system.

Post by Victor Zhang
and there is no RECEIVED packets for
loopback adapter,only sending packets,

How can you tell? Are you saying this because: 1) you saw the pings
come in on your ping program running on your Hercules MVS guest?, and
2) when you tried pinging your Windows host from your Hercules MVS
guest, your ping program said "timeout"?

Post by Victor Zhang
no ICS is enabled,

Well, you may not actually need the Windows "Internet Connection
Sharing" feature installed per se, but AFAIK, Windows XP *does* come
with some sort of Internet Connection Firewall feature automatically
enabled. It might not be called "ICS" (I'm not sure exactly WHAT it
is called; I don't use WinXP; I use Win2K and a separate firewall
product called Kerio Personal Firewall) but I'm rather certain WinXP
DOES have some sort of firewall installed by default.[1]

Post by Victor Zhang
so I am
totally confused by this problem,

You're not alone. :)

Post by Victor Zhang
I have the following questions,hope
1.Could you give me some information about Microsoft loopback
adapter,why is there only sending packets,no received packets?

My guess is your routing isn't configured right. But that's ONLY a
"guess" since I haven't seen your detailing debugging information
yet.[2]

Post by Victor Zhang
Is it normal?

No.

Post by Victor Zhang
Even if I ping the adapter,get response from it,still no
received packets.

What do you mean? Who are you pinging and from where are you doing
the pinging?

Post by Victor Zhang
2.If anyone here using Microsoft loopback adapter has the same
problem as me? I will test using real NIC tomorrow.But I need anyone
using loopback adapter to confirm to me if the problem is
specific
to my installation.
Fish,I'll send a private email to you with debug information
attached,please help me debug the problem.

Please do. I MIGHT have seen one from someone earlier (with the
subject line "debug ifor" (or something like that)), but since it was
an HTML email and I didn't know who it was from (it didn't have your
name in the "From:" line) I deleted it unopened.

When you send it, send it as plain text, and be sure to include
"CTCI-W32" or "TunTap32" or something similar on the subject line so
I know what it is.

Thanks.

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
fish-6N/dkqvhA+***@public.gmane.org

Fight Spam! Join CAUCE!
http://www.cauce.org/

[1] At least I *believe* that's correct. Could someone who actually
runs WinXP either confirm/deny this for us? Thanks.

[2] You said earlier you sent it to me, but I never received it.
Could you please send it again? (in PLAIN TEXT format please. I
automatically delete any/all HTML email that I receive if it's not
completely obvious who it's from and what it's about. ESPECIALLY any
that comes in that I wasn't expecting beforehand).

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.0.4

iQA/AwUBP1/Ol0j11/TE7j4qEQKP0ACgwKQMzfJML3YEA155ch/JIP5IB0IAmgMr
Jw4By3RIsDKIT3pveezxNwZ3
=8k+R
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Victor Zhang

2003-09-11 14:17:48 UTC

Permalink

Hello hercules list,
Problem solved, the problem is caused by firewall program called
"BLACKICE".When I disable it,I can ping from guest OS to host
OS(XP).
Thanks Fish and other kind people.
One off topic question,if OS/390,MVS is not permitted to run under
hercules, then why is CTCI/LCS developped? Can they be used by
permitted OS like MVS 3.8J or MVT?

Question two,I download winpcap 3.0 from its official site,but when
I start TestAPP,the program shows:
Packet.dll test application. Library version:3.0 alpha3
From the message,it seems this is not a stable one,but alpha3
version,the download file is :WinPcap_3_0.exe,file size:440,557
bytes. Is it a latest stable version?
--
Best regards,
Victor

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Volker Bandke

2003-09-11 14:37:06 UTC

Permalink

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Linux/390 perhaps? zLinux?

--
With kind Regards |\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
Volker Bandke |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
(BSP GmbH) '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

Lesser known machine instructions - CPE: Create Parity Error

(Another Wisdom from my fortune cookie jar)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Victor Zhang [mailto:zsl_hercules-k+***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:18 PM
To: Fish
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] CTCI-W32 and Microsoft loopback adapter

Hello hercules list,
Problem solved, the problem is caused by firewall program called
"BLACKICE".When I disable it,I can ping from guest OS to host
OS(XP).
Thanks Fish and other kind people.
One off topic question,if OS/390,MVS is not permitted to run under
hercules, then why is CTCI/LCS developped? Can they be used by
permitted OS like MVS 3.8J or MVT?

Question two,I download winpcap 3.0 from its official site,but when
I start TestAPP,the program shows:
Packet.dll test application. Library version:3.0 alpha3
From the message,it seems this is not a stable one,but alpha3
version,the download file is :WinPcap_3_0.exe,file size:440,557
bytes. Is it a latest stable version?

- --
Best regards,
Victor

- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
- ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
- ->

bb5ch39t

2003-09-11 15:41:34 UTC

Permalink

Post by Victor Zhang
Hello hercules list,

<snip>

Post by Victor Zhang
One off topic question,if OS/390,MVS is not permitted to run under
hercules, then why is CTCI/LCS developped? Can they be used by
permitted OS like MVS 3.8J or MVT?

I use Hercules to create Linux/390 instances at home. I then upload
them to our z800. I need network connectivity so that I can telnet
from my host OS (Linux/Intel) to my Linux/390 instance. I do this at
home because this is only a semi-official project at work. I can't
really do Linux/390 work at work due to other time pressures of
my "real work".

<snip>

Post by Victor Zhang
--
Best regards,
Victor

Adam Thornton

2003-09-11 15:54:05 UTC

Permalink

Post by bb5ch39t
I use Hercules to create Linux/390 instances at home. I then upload
them to our z800. I need network connectivity so that I can telnet
from my host OS (Linux/Intel) to my Linux/390 instance. I do this at
home because this is only a semi-official project at work. I can't
really do Linux/390 work at work due to other time pressures of
my "real work".

Eeeeagh! Don't telnet! SSH.

Adam

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

bb5ch39t

2003-09-11 16:20:23 UTC

Permalink

Post by Adam Thornton

Post by bb5ch39t
I use Hercules to create Linux/390 instances at home. I then

upload

Post by Adam Thornton

Post by bb5ch39t
them to our z800. I need network connectivity so that I can

telnet

Post by Adam Thornton

Post by bb5ch39t
from my host OS (Linux/Intel) to my Linux/390 instance. I do this at
home because this is only a semi-official project at work. I

can't

Post by Adam Thornton

Post by bb5ch39t
really do Linux/390 work at work due to other time pressures of
my "real work".

Eeeeagh! Don't telnet! SSH.
Adam

In this case, why? The connection is via the "tun0" device between my
Linux/Intel and the Linux/390 running on that same host. There is no
traffic that could be sniffed. And I don't want the CPU overhead on
my Linux/390 under Hercules. It runs slow enough as it is!

Granted, once I have it running on the z800, I use the OSA for IP
connectivity and use SSH to avoid sending anything in the clear.

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Adam Thornton

2003-09-11 16:53:59 UTC

Permalink

Post by bb5ch39t

Post by Adam Thornton
Eeeeagh! Don't telnet! SSH.

Because I misunderstood and thought you meant between the Linux/390
image at work and your home. No, on the same physical box, telnet is
OK, unless your box is multiuser and you don't trust the other people on
it; that traffic certainly *can* be sniffed by the root user, although
it's in memory rather than on the actual wire. But this being a Linux
workstation, it's probably only you on the box anyway.

Post by bb5ch39t
Granted, once I have it running on the z800, I use the OSA for IP
connectivity and use SSH to avoid sending anything in the clear.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Adam

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Fish

2003-09-12 04:57:15 UTC

Permalink

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Post by Victor Zhang
Hello hercules list,
Problem solved, the problem is caused by firewall program
called "BLACKICE".When I disable it,I can ping from guest
OS to host OS(XP).

Told you. >;-)

Post by Victor Zhang
Thanks Fish and other kind people.
One off topic question,if OS/390,MVS is not permitted
to run under hercules, then why is CTCI/LCS developped?
Can they be used by permitted OS like MVS 3.8J or MVT?

CTCI-W32 can be used by any operating system that supports CTC
adapter devices, including your own. There is, after all, nothing
preventing anyone from sitting down and writing their own operating
system, or modifying and existing one (such as MVS 3.8j) to provide
such support.

Just because CTCI-W32 provides support for a particular device that a
particular licensed operating system (OS/390) happens to directly
support doesn't mean it was written with that purpose in mind.

If we [IBM mainframe enthusiasts] are to have ANY hope of eventually
convincing IBM to provide some sort of hobbyist license for their
more modern/popular mainframe operating systems and related software,
then we MUST make every effort to demonstrate we ARE willing to HONOR
their licensing terms. Thus, ANYONE providing ANY appearance that
they are NOT honoring their existing licensing terms is VERY MUCH
frowned upon.

PLEASE folks, HONOR YOUR LICENSING AGREEMENTS!

You're only hurting the rest of us (not to mention yourself) by not
doing so.

(IBM *does* monitor this list!)

Post by Victor Zhang
Question two,I download winpcap 3.0 from its official site,
Packet.dll test application. Library version:3.0 alpha3
From the message,it seems this is not a stable one,but
alpha3 version,the download file is :WinPcap_3_0.exe,
file size:440,557 bytes. Is it a latest stable version?

I don't know. I can't answer that. All I know is the version of
WinPCap I'm using shows its version (whenever I right-click on it and
pull up the properties) as being version 3.0.0.18, dated Friday,
April 04, 2003, 3:07:20 pm. Its file name is indeed "WinPcap_3_0.exe"
and its file size is indeed 440,557 bytes.

I haven't downloaded their developers pack (which I believe is where
their TestApp program comes from) so I can't tell you anything about
it. Perhaps they simply forgot to update the version string in their
developers pack? I seem to recall that their developers pack comes
with its own pre-built versions of the driver and packet.dll. Perhaps
their testapp program is accidentally using (loading) THAT one
instead of the "officially installed one" that lives in your system
directory? <shrug>

If so, I suggest renaming the npf.sys and packet.dll in your
developers pack directory to something else so they don't
accidentally get used instead of the "official" ones that should have
been installed in your system directory.

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
fish-6N/dkqvhA+***@public.gmane.org

Fight Spam! Join CAUCE!
http://www.cauce.org/

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.0.4

iQA/AwUBP2FSKEj11/TE7j4qEQJHKACgh9I2WVBdRY9nyHAI9d+70jKT4i4An36i
ZE4t5Kex+9f7nNDlhU+VzBDZ
=hziL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Richard Higson

2003-09-12 13:52:05 UTC

Permalink

The IBM S/390 and zSeries Hardware runs more than (just)
IBM Operating Systems such as OS/390 or zOS or VM or zVM.
They also run Operating systems such as Linux (Debian, SuSE, RedHat and
others).

Linux was born & raised on the net; it follows that network
connectivity is very important for an emulator.

Richard

--
You don't build reliable bridges by refusing
to let anyone see the plans. === Alan Cox ===
Have a nice day ;-) Richard Higson mailto:richard.higson-qoLni4XNXEKzQB+***@public.gmane.org

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Upgrade to 128-Bit SSL Security!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/p7cEmB/s7qGAA/yigFAA/W4wwlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->