Discussion:
[hercules-390] newbie question
Jeroen Baten jeroen@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 07:11:51 UTC
Permalink
Hi everybody.

So I started playing with Hercyles.
I found the gercules-390.org site (wikipedia still shows this as the
main site btw)
I found tk3 and played with it for a week, learning some basic stuff.

Then I stumbled on tk4-.

I emailed Jay Maynard to point out this maybe oversight but the message
bouned

Then I searched his name in this group and found a post about github
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/73072)

Now, I am wondering. What is the current status?

Where to go to read relevant and current information about this amazing
project?

Hope I can get this message posted and someone can answer this.

Kind regards,

Jeroen Baten
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 07:49:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Then I stumbled on tk4-.
Now, I am wondering. What is the current status?
Where to go to read relevant and current
information about this amazing
project?
First I will assume that you are
interested in MVS, not CMS, DOSVS,
MTS, MUSIC, TSS.

There are 3 major paths to go with MVS.

1. You can download a bootleg z/OS
ADCD from somewhere. z/OS questions
can be directed to IBM-MAIN:
https://listserv.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

2. You can go with the freely-available
TK4-. The group for TK4- is:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/turnkey-mvs/info

3. You can go with MVS/380 which isn't
as up-to-date as the very latest TK4-, but
does allow 31-bit and 64-bit (beta)
programming. The group is:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-os380/info

Finally, if you have a generic MVS
question independent of either TK4-
or MVS/380, you can post here:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/H390-MVS/info

The best direction to go depends on
what exactly you are trying to achieve
by running MVS (and not CMS etc).
What are your plans?

BFN. Paul.
Jeroen Baten jeroen@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 11:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Hello and thanks Paul.

Well, what are my plans, you say.

I wrote 8 books about Linux, so I guess I know my way around that
system. :-)

And I am just curious to learn more about the ways a mainframe works.

There are several OS options but since I know neither maybe mvs is just
as good as any?

My plans:
-learn the mainframe master console and user session
-learn to program it. (ASM, PL/I and Cobol are the options on TK3)
if there is a setup with more languages, or maybe a more current OS
that would be nice too.

I hope this answers your question.

Looking forward to learn more.

Kind regards,

Jeroen Baten
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 12:08:30 UTC
Permalink
---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Hi Jeroen.

Based on what you said you wanted
to do, I would suggest starting with
TK4-. Another thing it has that I forgot
to mention is TCP/IP.

You can literally spend the rest of your
life learning about MVS on TK4-. No
need to upgrade.

I checked the turnkey-mvs "links" section
and found the link to TK4-:

http://wotho.ethz.ch/tk4-/

Any installation issues, post in
turnkey-mvs instead of here.
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
There are several OS options but since
I know neither maybe mvs is just
as good as any?
MVS is by far the "fullest" mainframe
operating system, so yes, stick with
that.
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
learn to program it. (ASM, PL/I and Cobol are the options on TK3)
Two C compilers are provided with
TK4-. GCC and JCC. JCC is
commercial quality, GCC is open
source.

BFN. Paul.
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 12:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Another thing it has that I forgot
to mention is TCP/IP.
ie TK4- comes with TCP/IP, while
MVS/380 does not.
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Two C compilers are provided with
TK4-. GCC and JCC. JCC is
commercial quality, GCC is open
source.
Also, the JCC implementation is closer
to what IBM produces, while GCCMVS
(produced by me) is designed to
be more easily understood by
someone with a Unix or Windows
background. The mainframe-isms
have been hidden as much as
possible in GCCMVS (actually,
mainly the runtime library, ie
PDPCLIB).

BFN. Paul.
Jeroen Baten jeroen@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 12:20:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your hard work on GCCMVS then!

I am currently still trying to wrap my head around the basics.
I can start rpf but I still need to find out what a dataset exactly is.
How the filesystem works and how to navigate it as a user.

So, there is still a long way ahead of me.

But, who knows, maybe I will write another book about this new adventure
so more people can discover this world?

Kind regards,

Jeroen Baten
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Another thing it has that I forgot
to mention is TCP/IP.
ie TK4- comes with TCP/IP, while
MVS/380 does not.
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Two C compilers are provided with
TK4-. GCC and JCC. JCC is
commercial quality, GCC is open
source.
Also, the JCC implementation is closer
to what IBM produces, while GCCMVS
(produced by me) is designed to
be more easily understood by
someone with a Unix or Windows
background. The mainframe-isms
have been hidden as much as
possible in GCCMVS (actually,
mainly the runtime library, ie
PDPCLIB).
BFN. Paul.
--
Jeroen Baten | EMAIL : ***@I2RS.NL
____ _ __ | web : www.i2rs.nl
| )|_)(_ | tel : +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
_|_/_| \__) | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK, Culemborg, the
Netherlands
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 14:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
I can start rpf but I still need to find out what a dataset exactly is.
How the filesystem works and how to navigate it as a user.
Basically you replace:

/herc01/devel/pdpclib/stdio.h

with:

HERC01.DEVEL.PDPCLIB.H(STDIO)

You basically need a separate
directory (PDS) for each file type
you wish to store. So there would
also be a:

HERC01.DEVEL.PDPCLIB.C(STDIO)

File types can have different attributes,
like C source code might be stored
in RECFM=V, assembler code in
RECFM=F, and load modules
(executables) in RECFM=U.

You can see some of my
recommendations here:

http://mvs380.sourceforge.net/System380.txt

And yes, please record all your
thoughts and observations in this
new journey, as some people,
including me, like to read that
sort of thing, so that we know
what needs extra documentation
etc.

BFN. Paul.
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 14:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
HERC01.DEVEL.PDPCLIB.H(STDIO)
Clarification - the above shows a
single member of a PDS. You can
access a single member directly
in JCL etc, but the actual dataset
name is considered to be:

HERC01.DEVEL.PDPCLIB.H

and (as a PDS or "library") it can have
many members. You can see that this
is a PDS if you look at the DSORG,
which is "PO". If it was a simple
sequential file, it would be "PS"
instead.

BFN. Paul.
Tony Harminc tharminc@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 04:00:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
I wrote 8 books about Linux, so I guess I know my way around that
system. :-)
Seems likely... Do you specialize in one area, or try to cover everything?
You are not, for instance, a kernel specialist or one in end-user
interfaces?
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
And I am just curious to learn more about the ways a mainframe works.
There are several OS options but since I know neither maybe mvs is just
as good as any?
I'm still not clear on your goals. "The mainframe" is just another hardware
platform that, as I'm sure you know, can run a number of operating systems
including Linux. Since you already know about all there is to know about
Linux, do you want to learn about the other OSs that appeared for various
reasons to run on the IBM hardware, or are you interested in the actual
hardware architecture, or...?

The hardware is very interesting in its own right, and was the first
"hardware family" or if you like "system architecture" in that the
Principles of Operation describes a core set of features that all models
implement, and optional features that may be found on a given model. A few
models also implemented unique or extended features beyond even the
core+optional, but these were relatively rare.

The core has evolved over time, of course, under different names from S/360
in 1964 with around 100 intructions to S/370 base (not much different) to
S/370 virtual storage, to S/370 XA in the 1980s to ESA/370 to zArch
(64-bit) which now has well over 1000 instructions. But to this day an
application program last compiled in 1964 is likely to be able to run on
todays latest zArch machine, which speaks not only to hardware
compatibility but to that of at least some of the OSs.

MVS (now z/OS) is probably the most well known IBM OS for these
architectures, but perhaps not the most common. Certainly in the 1980s
there were many more VM/370 licences than there were MVS/370. These days no
one but IBM knows how many copies of any of their OSs are extant and on
what hardware, but educated guesses suggest well under ten thousand, and it
may well be much lower than that. On the other hand, a significant portion
of the world's corporate data processing is still performed on these
systems.

The architecture was historically very programmer friendly, but times have
changed and the newer versions are harder to write well performing
assembler code for. As on most current platforms, optimizing compilers
rule. So for these and other reasons (notably the non availability of IBM's
current OSs for hobbyist use), it does make sense to learn at least
initially about the older architecture versions and their OSs.

In some ways you will find programming for these OSs much the same as for
any other; in other ways you will very much be a stranger in a strange
land. It's important not to dismiss these older systems as something run by
nerdy men in white lab coats with boxes of punched cards, or to discover
that something works very much differently from what you are used to, and
give up because it's so weird.

You will find lots of knowledgable people here, with varying opinions. Ask
whatever you want and you are pretty sure to get at least one answer, and
maybe three incompatible ones.

Welcome.

Tony H.
Jeroen Baten jeroen@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 07:45:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
I wrote 8 books about Linux, so I guess I know my way around that
system. :-)
Seems likely... Do you specialize in one area, or try to cover
everything? You are not, for instance, a kernel specialist or one in
end-user interfaces?
I do management consulting, I like to do Python/Django dev,
I do project management in projects with a big part open source.
I am the project leader of the LibrePlan and the LibreHis projects.
I initiated a conference (t-dose.org) a business club and an open source
businesses foundation.
This sort of covers it.

I am not a kernel specialist. My UX design skills suck. :-)
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
And I am just curious to learn more about the ways a mainframe works.
There are several OS options but since I know neither maybe mvs is just
as good as any?
I'm still not clear on your goals. "The mainframe" is just another
hardware platform that, as I'm sure you know, can run a number of
operating systems including Linux. Since you already know about all
there is to know about Linux, do you want to learn about the other OSs
that appeared for various reasons to run on the IBM hardware, or are you
interested in the actual hardware architecture, or...?
To me currently the hardware of a mainframe is an abstract box where
everything is optimised to increase throughput. That works for me :-).
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
The hardware is very interesting in its own right, and was the first
"hardware family" or if you like "system architecture" in that the
Principles of Operation describes a core set of features that all models
implement, and optional features that may be found on a given model. A
few models also implemented unique or extended features beyond even the
core+optional, but these were relatively rare.
The core has evolved over time, of course, under different names from
S/360 in 1964 with around 100 intructions to S/370 base (not much
different) to S/370 virtual storage, to S/370 XA in the 1980s to ESA/370
to zArch (64-bit) which now has well over 1000 instructions. But to this
day an application program last compiled in 1964 is likely to be able to
run on todays latest zArch machine, which speaks not only to hardware
compatibility but to that of at least some of the OSs.
MVS (now z/OS) is probably the most well known IBM OS for these
architectures, but perhaps not the most common. Certainly in the 1980s
there were many more VM/370 licences than there were MVS/370. These days
no one but IBM knows how many copies of any of their OSs are extant and
on what hardware, but educated guesses suggest well under ten thousand,
and it may well be much lower than that. On the other hand, a
significant portion of the world's corporate data processing is still
performed on these systems.
The architecture was historically very programmer friendly, but times
have changed and the newer versions are harder to write well performing
assembler code for. As on most current platforms, optimizing compilers
rule. So for these and other reasons (notably the non availability of
IBM's current OSs for hobbyist use), it does make sense to learn at
least initially about the older architecture versions and their OSs.
In some ways you will find programming for these OSs much the same as
for any other; in other ways you will very much be a stranger in a
strange land. It's important not to dismiss these older systems as
something run by nerdy men in white lab coats with boxes of punched
cards, or to discover that something works very much differently from
what you are used to, and give up because it's so weird.
You will find lots of knowledgable people here, with varying opinions.
Ask whatever you want and you are pretty sure to get at least one
answer, and maybe three incompatible ones.
Sofar I really enjoy the experience of this group and the replies.
I love to learn so I am happy here now :-)
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Welcome.
Tony H.
'John P. Hartmann' jphartmann@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 08:56:21 UTC
Permalink
That seems to be anathema to the mainframe mindset.
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
I do management consulting, I like to do Python/Django dev,
I do project management in projects with a big part open source.
I am the project leader of the LibrePlan and the LibreHis projects.
I initiated a conference (t-dose.org) a business club and an open source
businesses foundation.
This sort of covers it.
Kevin Monceaux Kevin@RawFedDogs.net [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 15:29:51 UTC
Permalink
"The mainframe" is just another hardware platform that, as I'm sure you
know, can run a number of operating systems including Linux.
This is true. And, the OP said he wanted to learn how "a mainframe" works.
His interests might not be limited to IBM hardware. There are a variety of
other mainframes to choose from. Though sadly the mainframe emulators and
OSes available to hobbyists are limited. I know of a few.

The dps8m emulator capable of running Multics is progressing nicely:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/dps8m/

DTCyber can emulate a variety of CDC mainframes:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/

But only one or two very basic OSes are available to hobbyists. Cyber1.org:

https://cyber1.org/

has PLATO running on NOS on DTCyber. They got special permission to run
NOS. I wish it was available to hobbyists.

Some VAXen running VMS were large enough to be considered mainframes.
OpenVMS is available to hobbyists and can be run on the SIMH VAX emulator:

http://www.OpenVMSHobbyist.com/

Does anyone know of any other non-IBM mainframe emulators and OSes available
to hobbyists?
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
dave.g4ugm@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 16:26:07 UTC
Permalink
There is a pile of ICL1900 stuff here:-

http://www.icl1900.co.uk/index.html

some KDF9 stuff here:-

http://sw.ccs.bcs.org/KDF9/index.html

and an Atlas 1 emulator here:-

http://www.leatherdale.net/atlashelpfiles/index.html

I am not sure if these count as "Mainframes", certainly I think ATLAS should
as it is an asynchronous machine. There are also commercial emulators. I
believe that Fujitsu has an ICL2900 emulator and BULL has a DPS8 (not 8M)
emulator but as they still make (probably considerable amounts of) money
from them they are are not generally available. Of course IBM itself has a Z
emulator, again for a price...

Dave
G4UGM
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 01 May 2017 16:30
Subject: [hercules-390] Re: newbie question
On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 12:00:19AM -0400, Tony Harminc
"The mainframe" is just another hardware platform that, as I'm sure
you know, can run a number of operating systems including Linux.
This is true. And, the OP said he wanted to learn how "a mainframe" works.
His interests might not be limited to IBM hardware. There are a variety of
other mainframes to choose from. Though sadly the mainframe emulators
and OSes available to hobbyists are limited. I know of a few.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dps8m/
http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/
But only one or two very basic OSes are available to hobbyists.
https://cyber1.org/
has PLATO running on NOS on DTCyber. They got special permission to run
NOS. I wish it was available to hobbyists.
Some VAXen running VMS were large enough to be considered mainframes.
http://www.OpenVMSHobbyist.com/
Does anyone know of any other non-IBM mainframe emulators and OSes
available to hobbyists?
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
Bernd Oppolzer berndoppolzer@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 16:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Monceaux ***@RawFedDogs.net [hercules-390]
Does anyone know of any other non-IBM mainframe emulators and OSes available
to hobbyists?
This is an emulator for the German mainframe Telefunken TR 440:

http://tr440.info/

You can write programs using the Telefunken Assembly Language
(Telefunken Assembler Sprache = TAS) and use a lot of system software
which is part of the emulator. The emulator behaves much like the original
time-shared dialog programming system of the TR 440 of the 1970s.

The original TR 440 had many HLL compilers, including ALGOL, FORTRAN,
COBOL, PL/1 (Multics), BCPL, Pascal. But unfortunately they are lost and
not (yet) part of this distribution. Let's see what future brings.

Kind regards

Bernd
mark_gutzwiller@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 19:03:18 UTC
Permalink
Unisys Clearpath OS 2200 Express at http://www.unisys.com/offerings/technology-products-and-services/clearpath-forward-systems/clearpath-os-2200-software/clearpath-os-2200-express http://www.unisys.com/offerings/technology-products-and-services/clearpath-forward-systems/clearpath-os-2200-software/clearpath-os-2200-express is an emulator and the current OS 2200 for hobbyist/educational use.


And Unisys ClearPath MCP Express at http://www.unisys.com/offerings/technology-products-and-services/clearpath-forward-systems/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express http://www.unisys.com/offerings/technology-products-and-services/clearpath-forward-systems/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express . Emulator and current OS for MCP systems, hobbyist/educational use.

Mark Gutzwiller
"The mainframe" is just another hardware platform that, as I'm sure you
know, can run a number of operating systems including Linux.
This is true. And, the OP said he wanted to learn how "a mainframe" works.
His interests might not be limited to IBM hardware. There are a variety of
other mainframes to choose from. Though sadly the mainframe emulators and
OSes available to hobbyists are limited. I know of a few.

The dps8m emulator capable of running Multics is progressing nicely:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/dps8m/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/dps8m/

DTCyber can emulate a variety of CDC mainframes:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/ http://members.iinet.net.au/~tom-hunter/

But only one or two very basic OSes are available to hobbyists. Cyber1.org:

https://cyber1.org/ https://cyber1.org/

has PLATO running on NOS on DTCyber. They got special permission to run
NOS. I wish it was available to hobbyists.

Some VAXen running VMS were large enough to be considered mainframes.
OpenVMS is available to hobbyists and can be run on the SIMH VAX emulator:

http://www.OpenVMSHobbyist.com/ http://www.OpenVMSHobbyist.com/

Does anyone know of any other non-IBM mainframe emulators and OSes available
to hobbyists?




--

Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
jimruddy1953@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2017-04-29 22:21:24 UTC
Permalink
Jeroen,

There are a couple of IBM manuals you may find helpful. The first is "GR20-4260-1 Introduction to Virtual Storage in System/370" at https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ibm370VM37ionToVirtualStorageInSystem370Feb73_7285057 https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ibm370VM37ionToVirtualStorageInSystem370Feb73_7285057

The second one is "GC28-0984-0 OS VS2 MVS Overview Rel 3.7 Jun78" at https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ibm370OSVS09840OSVS2MVSOverviewRel3.7Jun78_8547778 https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ibm370OSVS09840OSVS2MVSOverviewRel3.7Jun78_8547778

Jim
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2017-04-30 23:12:09 UTC
Permalink
Jay quit and didn't turn anything over to anybody.
http://www.hercules-390.eu/ is the updated site.

Here is a sample chapter of getting started with OS/390.
http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780131738560/samplechapter/0131738569_01.pdf

You can run your Linux applications on z Systems.
http://www.mainframes.com/Linux.html
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Hi everybody.
So I started playing with Hercyles.
I found the gercules-390.org site (wikipedia still shows this as the
main site btw)
I found tk3 and played with it for a week, learning some basic stuff.
Then I stumbled on tk4-.
I emailed Jay Maynard to point out this maybe oversight but the message
bouned
Then I searched his name in this group and found a post about github
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/73072)
Now, I am wondering. What is the current status?
Where to go to read relevant and current information about this amazing
project?
Hope I can get this message posted and someone can answer this.
Kind regards,
Jeroen Baten
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
Jeroen Baten jeroen@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 07:46:09 UTC
Permalink
Please look at the very last lines of this section from the hercules-390
group:

"
Post by Mike Schwab ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org"
Jay quit and didn't turn anything over to anybody.
http://www.hercules-390.eu/ is the updated site.
Here is a sample chapter of getting started with OS/390.
http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780131738560/samplechapter/0131738569_01.pdf
You can run your Linux applications on z Systems.
http://www.mainframes.com/Linux.html
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Hi everybody.
So I started playing with Hercyles.
I found the gercules-390.org site (wikipedia still shows this as the
main site btw)
I found tk3 and played with it for a week, learning some basic stuff.
Then I stumbled on tk4-.
I emailed Jay Maynard to point out this maybe oversight but the message
bouned
Then I searched his name in this group and found a post about github
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/73072)
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Now, I am wondering. What is the current status?
Where to go to read relevant and current information about this amazing
project?
Hope I can get this message posted and someone can answer this.
Kind regards,
Jeroen Baten
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
--
Jeroen Baten | EMAIL : ***@I2RS.NL
____ _ __ | web : www.i2rs.nl
| )|_)(_ | tel : +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
_|_/_| \__) | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK, Culemborg, the
Netherlands
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2017-05-01 12:29:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Please look at the very last lines of this section
[...]
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
http://www.hercules-390.org
Yes, we're aware of that, Jeroen. Unfortunately however, there's nothing we can do to change it. :(

Only the owner/moderator of the hercules-390 Yahoo Group can change any of the group's (forum's) settings/attributes (which includes the footer that appears at the bottom of every posting), and guess who that is?

Yep. Jay Maynard!

And he's unfortunately AWOL. :(

We've (I've personally) tried contacting him at his last known email address about this very issue (turning over ownership/control of this group to someone else so we can change some of its settings(*)), but he has unfortunately never responded to any of our inquiries.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com

(*) Which includes not only the text of the group's footer message but also its attachments setting too. Right now you can't attach anything to any of your posts and we'd like to change that, but we can't since none of us besides him is the group owner/moderator. So... we just continue on as is, since we pretty much have no choice in the matter. It sucks, but then so does life in general, so what are you going to do? :(
Gregg Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2017-05-02 03:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Hello!
Interesting. I remember complaining about an issue and Roger agreed
with my complaint.

And whatever is going on is Ivan's fault. (Again.)
-----
Gregg C Levine ***@gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 8:29 AM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)'
Post by '\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Please look at the very last lines of this section
[...]
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
Post by Jeroen Baten ***@jeroenbaten.nl [hercules-390]
http://www.hercules-390.org
Yes, we're aware of that, Jeroen. Unfortunately however, there's nothing we can do to change it. :(
Only the owner/moderator of the hercules-390 Yahoo Group can change any of the group's (forum's) settings/attributes (which includes the footer that appears at the bottom of every posting), and guess who that is?
Yep. Jay Maynard!
And he's unfortunately AWOL. :(
We've (I've personally) tried contacting him at his last known email address about this very issue (turning over ownership/control of this group to someone else so we can change some of its settings(*)), but he has unfortunately never responded to any of our inquiries.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
(*) Which includes not only the text of the group's footer message but also its attachments setting too. Right now you can't attach anything to any of your posts and we'd like to change that, but we can't since none of us besides him is the group owner/moderator. So... we just continue on as is, since we pretty much have no choice in the matter. It sucks, but then so does life in general, so what are you going to do? :(
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