Discussion:
IBM 3290 plasma terminal display monitor
ntworks1
2003-02-11 11:53:07 UTC
Permalink
I have access to a few of these - we run them in the shop I work at,
as VM/VSE terminals


as a computer operator, I am in love with these temrinals. They
keyboards are the best keyboards I've ever seen, clicky feel to them
but not so loud like the ibm pc model-M, the screen is crisp and oh-
so-orange.

I saw a semi-lengthy discussion about these on this board many months
back, but I didnt gleam the info I was looking for


what I am hoping to do is this - I would like to be able to run this
4-screens-in-1 terminal as a dumb terminal for a linux machine. I
know this is a hercules discussion board, and if all i could do was
use it as a terminal for hercules that is ok, but really i would
prefer it to be a tty terminal for hercule's host operating system -
linux (redhat 8.0). i would love to have 4 login tty terminals on
this 1 beautiful screen. i imagine running "top" in one, some text
mode network monitoring app in another, playing some text adventure
game in the other and surfing the web in text-mode lynx in the other!!

but I know this will likely be impossible/expensive/extremely hard.

what i am guessing i would need is this-

either 1) some type of old ass ISA card which consists of a 3270
controller type board that plugs into a pc motherboard (and the
drivers for this thing for linux)

or 2) some cheap and small 3270 controller which i can interface with
my pc via serial or something


so its a 1 in a million but for those of u who know the 3290-2
terminal you know it would be worth it! thanks




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davesienkiewicz
2003-02-11 14:25:06 UTC
Permalink
The 3290-1 or 3290-2 is a Distributed Function Terminal and to my
knowledge is not supported by the TCP/IP code with the latest
microcode in an IBM 3174 controller with a LAN card.

I have tried testing both types of 3290 via a 3174 with TCP to
a 'real' host with no results. The network connection menu never
displays, but if a CUT device is attached in its place, it pops right
up.

Dave S.




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Bill Turner, WB4ALM
2003-02-11 17:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by davesienkiewicz
The 3290-1 or 3290-2 is a Distributed Function Terminal and to my
knowledge is not supported by the TCP/IP code with the latest
microcode in an IBM 3174 controller with a LAN card.
I have tried testing both types of 3290 via a 3174 with TCP to
a 'real' host with no results. The network connection menu never
displays, but if a CUT device is attached in its place, it pops right
up.
Dave S.
I had to give up the two 3290 displays that I had been using for many
years as part
of a public service Community type project which I continued to work on
after I
retired.... ...Since the office space is now only occupied "some" of
the time during
the week, and my terminals and a printer were the one things attached,
one of the
more intellegent network guys removed the 3174 controller and had it
shipped to a
surplus equipment dealer. I came in at night about three days later,
and saw the error
message about disconnected cable/controller. (Controllers were on a
different floor
in a locked closet.) Maintenance and repair is only done during the
day, and has
"48 hours" to respond to a single complaint. By the time they
discovered what had
happened, there was nothing that could be done to recover the controller
removed
"in error".

They "fixed" the problem by replacing the two plasma terminals with a
pair of PC's...

Anyway, I tried to locate a replacement controller unit (of any sort)
and basically
have discovered that that all logic to control the 3290 was in the
controller, and
that it needed extra memory if 3290's were attached. Because of processing
requirements then "normal" 32 terminal limit for the controller becomes
"16" if
only Plasma terminals are attached. Furthermore, the controller must
have the
software option for 3290 support genned into, and that because IBM dropped
support quite a few years ago, the controller becomes "back-levelled" from a
software support point of view. Futhermore, the unit I had would only
function
as Bisync or HDLC on the communications line side...

Since the data sent up and down the coax from the controller was at a
56kb rate,
I then started to look into building my own controller/interface - but
was unable
to locate engineering specifications for the data interface.... After
spending a
fair amount of time on this, I finaly gave it up as a lost cause.
Didn't matter
anyway, as about a month later, somebody came by to pickup the plasma
displays...

While I agree that it would be nice to use that display, I think that
the problems
and time spent will be for naught - specially if one of the speciallized IBM
circuit cards inside the display goes bad. Not sure how you would ever
get a replacement. I know that as far as the 50+ that the company owned
was concerned, as they went bad, they were junked. In most cases, they
were sitting on a programmers desk, next to the required PC.

Very few of the programmers used them for more than a "4-screen" system
monitoring display, I was one of the few that actually used it as a working
terminal - and I did like my 160 column, 60 line display (or thereabouts).

/s/ Bill Turner





ImangIt's a long story, but the office that they were in was only used
for a few hours a week.
...thyey we



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davesienkiewicz
2003-02-11 19:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Hey, Bill.
We still use 'em for large-screen displays and for some of our system
monitors. In the days of 'end-user computing', they occasionally saw
use as document entry terminals.
It's still possible to get 3174s via e-bay. Prices are all over the
place with perhaps the most expensive option being an ethernet card.
Dave S.
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
Post by davesienkiewicz
The 3290-1 or 3290-2 is a Distributed Function Terminal and to my
knowledge is not supported by the TCP/IP code with the latest
microcode in an IBM 3174 controller with a LAN card.
I have tried testing both types of 3290 via a 3174 with TCP to
a 'real' host with no results. The network connection menu never
displays, but if a CUT device is attached in its place, it pops right
up.
Dave S.
I had to give up the two 3290 displays that I had been using for many
years as part
of a public service Community type project which I continued to work on
after I
retired.... ...Since the office space is now only occupied "some" of
the time during
the week, and my terminals and a printer were the one things
attached,
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
one of the
more intellegent network guys removed the 3174 controller and had it
shipped to a
surplus equipment dealer. I came in at night about three days
later,
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
and saw the error
message about disconnected cable/controller. (Controllers were on a
different floor
in a locked closet.) Maintenance and repair is only done during the
day, and has
"48 hours" to respond to a single complaint. By the time they
discovered what had
happened, there was nothing that could be done to recover the
controller
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
removed
"in error".
They "fixed" the problem by replacing the two plasma terminals with a
pair of PC's...
Anyway, I tried to locate a replacement controller unit (of any sort)
and basically
have discovered that that all logic to control the 3290 was in the
controller, and
that it needed extra memory if 3290's were attached. Because of processing
requirements then "normal" 32 terminal limit for the controller becomes
"16" if
only Plasma terminals are attached. Furthermore, the controller must
have the
software option for 3290 support genned into, and that because IBM dropped
support quite a few years ago, the controller becomes "back-
levelled" from a
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
software support point of view. Futhermore, the unit I had would only
function
as Bisync or HDLC on the communications line side...
Since the data sent up and down the coax from the controller was at a
56kb rate,
I then started to look into building my own controller/interface - but
was unable
to locate engineering specifications for the data interface....
After
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
spending a
fair amount of time on this, I finaly gave it up as a lost cause.
Didn't matter
anyway, as about a month later, somebody came by to pickup the
plasma
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
displays...
While I agree that it would be nice to use that display, I think that
the problems
and time spent will be for naught - specially if one of the
speciallized IBM
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
circuit cards inside the display goes bad. Not sure how you would ever
get a replacement. I know that as far as the 50+ that the company owned
was concerned, as they went bad, they were junked. In most cases, they
were sitting on a programmers desk, next to the required PC.
Very few of the programmers used them for more than a "4-screen" system
monitoring display, I was one of the few that actually used it as a working
terminal - and I did like my 160 column, 60 line display (or
thereabouts).
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
/s/ Bill Turner
ImangIt's a long story, but the office that they were in was only used
for a few hours a week.
...thyey we
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ntworks1
2003-02-12 00:06:18 UTC
Permalink
I work at a mainly mainframe datacenter doing goverment outsourcing
of mainframe operations. I'm 21, have worked as a computer operator
here for 3 years. In that time we phased out nearly all the 317*
consoles in our console room. when I started we had roughly 20 IBM
terminals. This included 4 IBM 3290 plasma screens used as consoles
for a VM/VSE system.

I love the 3290's the best, but in the last 3 years the manager has
decided to give the quickly expanding datacenter a 'new look' and
replaced nearly all the ibm terminals with flashy new PC's, each
running 2 21" monitors. the systems consoles were replaced with
several VISARA console-consolidation thin client boxes attatched to
yet more 21" monitors.

however we still have a few good old terminals including 2 remaining
3290's that are used 24/7/365 and still kick much ass.

we have been removed several console control units with a few
remaining active that I fear are soon to go.. however if and when
they do I would like to (very unlikely) see if I can acquire the
control unit which fed the 3290's plus one of the terminals.

in the unlikely event these 2 things fall into my hands. how would I
go about using them by attatching it to a pc. To the end result of
either 1) use as a 4-secreen console for Hercules. or 2) (better
yet) use it as a 4-screen "tty" dumb terminal for linux on my pc.


I have heard mention also of possibly an old card for a PC which
emulates and/or provides the function of a 3270. would I be able to
use such a card on a modern pc running linux, or would I need an old
IBM PC (or xt, at, ps/2 etc) to use this to *somehow* put the 3290
to use? (hey - what about these old obscure IBM's I read about like
the PC/370 or PC/390 which were their failed attempt to make a
desktop mainframe system?)
Post by davesienkiewicz
Hey, Bill.
We still use 'em for large-screen displays and for some of our
system
Post by davesienkiewicz
monitors. In the days of 'end-user computing', they occasionally saw
use as document entry terminals.
It's still possible to get 3174s via e-bay. Prices are all over the
place with perhaps the most expensive option being an ethernet
card.
Post by davesienkiewicz
Dave S.
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
Post by davesienkiewicz
The 3290-1 or 3290-2 is a Distributed Function Terminal and to my
knowledge is not supported by the TCP/IP code with the latest
microcode in an IBM 3174 controller with a LAN card.
I have tried testing both types of 3290 via a 3174 with TCP to
a 'real' host with no results. The network connection menu
never
Post by davesienkiewicz
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
Post by davesienkiewicz
displays, but if a CUT device is attached in its place, it
pops
Post by davesienkiewicz
right
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
Post by davesienkiewicz
up.
Dave S.
I had to give up the two 3290 displays that I had been using for
many
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
years as part
of a public service Community type project which I continued to
work on
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
after I
retired.... ...Since the office space is now only
occupied "some"
Post by davesienkiewicz
of
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
the time during
the week, and my terminals and a printer were the one things
attached,
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
one of the
more intellegent network guys removed the 3174 controller and
had
Post by davesienkiewicz
it
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
shipped to a
surplus equipment dealer. I came in at night about three days
later,
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
and saw the error
message about disconnected cable/controller. (Controllers were on a
different floor
in a locked closet.) Maintenance and repair is only done during
the
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
day, and has
"48 hours" to respond to a single complaint. By the time they
discovered what had
happened, there was nothing that could be done to recover the
controller
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
removed
"in error".
They "fixed" the problem by replacing the two plasma terminals
with a
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
pair of PC's...
Anyway, I tried to locate a replacement controller unit (of any
sort)
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
and basically
have discovered that that all logic to control the 3290 was in the
controller, and
that it needed extra memory if 3290's were attached. Because of
processing
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
requirements then "normal" 32 terminal limit for the controller
becomes
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
"16" if
only Plasma terminals are attached. Furthermore, the controller
must
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
have the
software option for 3290 support genned into, and that because
IBM
Post by davesienkiewicz
dropped
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
support quite a few years ago, the controller becomes "back-
levelled" from a
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
software support point of view. Futhermore, the unit I had would
only
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
function
as Bisync or HDLC on the communications line side...
Since the data sent up and down the coax from the controller was
at
Post by davesienkiewicz
a
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
56kb rate,
I then started to look into building my own
controller/interface -
Post by davesienkiewicz
but
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
was unable
to locate engineering specifications for the data interface....
After
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
spending a
fair amount of time on this, I finaly gave it up as a lost
cause.
Post by davesienkiewicz
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
Didn't matter
anyway, as about a month later, somebody came by to pickup the
plasma
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
displays...
While I agree that it would be nice to use that display, I think
that
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
the problems
and time spent will be for naught - specially if one of the
speciallized IBM
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
circuit cards inside the display goes bad. Not sure how you
would
Post by davesienkiewicz
ever
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
get a replacement. I know that as far as the 50+ that the
company
Post by davesienkiewicz
owned
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
was concerned, as they went bad, they were junked. In most
cases,
Post by davesienkiewicz
they
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
were sitting on a programmers desk, next to the required PC.
Very few of the programmers used them for more than a "4-screen"
system
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
monitoring display, I was one of the few that actually used it
as a
Post by davesienkiewicz
working
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
terminal - and I did like my 160 column, 60 line display (or
thereabouts).
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
/s/ Bill Turner
ImangIt's a long story, but the office that they were in was
only
Post by davesienkiewicz
used
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
for a few hours a week.
...thyey we
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Gregg C Levine
2003-02-11 23:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Hello from Gregg C Levine
Funny... I have a 3274 living here. He was given to me, via, one of
the folks who are also residents of this list. You're right Dave, they
are available on Ebay, I don't know how, because their site is badly
constructed. And I've seen one of those big guys. It was running
displaying OS/390, and the output was streaming from an IS/390. I
should add, that the output, was the status displays, so I think it
was working as the main console.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon-XfrvlLN1Pqtfpb/***@public.gmane.org
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: [hercules-390] Re: IBM 3290 plasma terminal display monitor
Hey, Bill.
We still use 'em for large-screen displays and for some of our
system
monitors. In the days of 'end-user computing', they occasionally saw
use as document entry terminals.
It's still possible to get 3174s via e-bay. Prices are all over the
place with perhaps the most expensive option being an ethernet card.
Dave S.
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
Post by davesienkiewicz
The 3290-1 or 3290-2 is a Distributed Function Terminal and to my
knowledge is not supported by the TCP/IP code with the latest
microcode in an IBM 3174 controller with a LAN card.
I have tried testing both types of 3290 via a 3174 with TCP to
a 'real' host with no results. The network connection menu never
displays, but if a CUT device is attached in its place, it pops
right
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
Post by davesienkiewicz
up.
Dave S.
I had to give up the two 3290 displays that I had been using for
many
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
years as part
of a public service Community type project which I continued to
work on
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
after I
retired.... ...Since the office space is now only occupied
"some"
of
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
the time during
the week, and my terminals and a printer were the one things
attached,
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
one of the
more intellegent network guys removed the 3174 controller and had
it
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
shipped to a
surplus equipment dealer. I came in at night about three days
later,
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
and saw the error
message about disconnected cable/controller. (Controllers were on a
different floor
in a locked closet.) Maintenance and repair is only done during
the
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
day, and has
"48 hours" to respond to a single complaint. By the time they
discovered what had
happened, there was nothing that could be done to recover the
controller
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
removed
"in error".
They "fixed" the problem by replacing the two plasma terminals
with a
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
pair of PC's...
Anyway, I tried to locate a replacement controller unit (of any
sort)
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
and basically
have discovered that that all logic to control the 3290 was in the
controller, and
that it needed extra memory if 3290's were attached. Because of
processing
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
requirements then "normal" 32 terminal limit for the controller
becomes
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
"16" if
only Plasma terminals are attached. Furthermore, the controller
must
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
have the
software option for 3290 support genned into, and that because IBM
dropped
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
support quite a few years ago, the controller becomes "back-
levelled" from a
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
software support point of view. Futhermore, the unit I had would
only
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
function
as Bisync or HDLC on the communications line side...
Since the data sent up and down the coax from the controller was
at
a
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
56kb rate,
I then started to look into building my own controller/interface -
but
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
was unable
to locate engineering specifications for the data interface....
After
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
spending a
fair amount of time on this, I finaly gave it up as a lost cause.
Didn't matter
anyway, as about a month later, somebody came by to pickup the
plasma
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
displays...
While I agree that it would be nice to use that display, I think
that
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
the problems
and time spent will be for naught - specially if one of the
speciallized IBM
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
circuit cards inside the display goes bad. Not sure how you would
ever
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
get a replacement. I know that as far as the 50+ that the company
owned
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
was concerned, as they went bad, they were junked. In most cases,
they
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
were sitting on a programmers desk, next to the required PC.
Very few of the programmers used them for more than a "4-screen"
system
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
monitoring display, I was one of the few that actually used it as
a
working
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
terminal - and I did like my 160 column, 60 line display (or
thereabouts).
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
/s/ Bill Turner
ImangIt's a long story, but the office that they were in was only
used
Post by Bill Turner, WB4ALM
for a few hours a week.
...thyey we
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GerardS
2003-02-12 00:26:52 UTC
Permalink
| Bill Turner wrote:
----much snipping----
| Very few of the programmers used them for more than a "4-screen" system
| monitoring display, I was one of the few that actually used it as a working
| terminal - and I did like my 160 column, 60 line display (or thereabouts).

It was 160 columns, 62 lines. I used it as an editing terminal (using XEDIT
under CMS), you can really do a lot of serious work on it ... I wrote some
neat XEDIT macros so that you could show about 120 lines of source (side by
side, like the columns in a magazine). Heavy duty editing. _______Gerard S.




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Bill Turner, WB4ALM
2003-02-12 20:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by GerardS
----much snipping----
| Very few of the programmers used them for more than a "4-screen" system
| monitoring display, I was one of the few that actually used it as a working
| terminal - and I did like my 160 column, 60 line display (or
thereabouts).
It was 160 columns, 62 lines. I used it as an editing terminal (using XEDIT
under CMS), you can really do a lot of serious work on it ... I wrote some
neat XEDIT macros so that you could show about 120 lines of source (side by
side, like the columns in a magazine). Heavy duty editing.
_______Gerard S.
Hi GeraldS, thanks for the update - I couldn't remember the exact size.
I also did a
number of special execs (EXEC / EXEC2 / REXX) to display data in a
similar manner.
Originally used the 3290 under VM, then the company decided to not use
VM any
more (mistake in my opinion) so I used the 3290 under TSO. I could
debug problems
faster than many, just because my "viewing" window was larger.

Wish I had thought about EBAY 9-months ago, when I still had the two
terminals, as
they were very nice to use - and my eyes really liked the FLAT screen.
The orange
color bothered a number of people - which was all right with me, they
stayed out of my
office!

I'll do some checking, but I doubt that the 3290's are still in he
"surplus inventory". They
were originally purchased for use in our control center as OS Control
Consoles, but some
very bad information was supplied with regards to their control unit
"loading" and they put
too many 3290's on each of the four control units. The first day
everything was powered
up, it took about three hours before operations discovered that the
consoles were now
many minutes (15 or so) behind the actual systems - and rapidly falling
farther and farther
behind. Several days later, all of them had been replaced by other
terminals, and the 3290's
were made available to anyone who wanted them.

That was many years ago, and I had one on my desk up to the day I left
in 2001...

/s/ Bill Turner






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herc_fun
2003-02-13 18:23:45 UTC
Permalink
(all text snipped)
I still have a 3290 on my (side)desk (2 up display
console/omegamon). IMHO the weirdest thing about this device is the
moise it makes when the screen is updated!

Alas, I have resolved myself to a terminal emulator on my workstation
as my primary iron interface. Every now and then I use the emulator
to logon to TSO using the 160x62 screensize; handy for ISPF editing
long line lengths. Now, if I could just get PCOMM to reproduce that
lovely orange and get it to make the screen update noises . . .


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Paul Raulerson
2003-02-14 03:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Actually, you can do that. <grin>
Post by herc_fun
Now, if I could just get PCOMM to reproduce that
lovely orange and get it to make the screen update noises . . .
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