Questions on TDF

[Binyamin Dissen]

I cannot find the description of the TDF format in the New Users Guide.

It appears from the documentation that there should be examples in the \tapes
directory on the CD but I only see .map and .het files.

The documentation indicates that the TDF contains tape label descriptors and
instructs the tape emulation where to find the data. I was wondering if that
works for output as well, i.e., a write to the emulated tape would use the TDF
to direct the data output?

--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen-***@public.gmane.org>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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[John Cassidy]

Hello all,

I was wondering is there an existing Hercules utility to
treat (backup /restore) TDF files.


Merci

John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering

Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU

Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]

E-Mail: Sean-***@public.gmane.org
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Binyamin Dissen [mailto:bdissen-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 1:25 PM
To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF

I cannot find the description of the TDF format in the New Users
Guide.

It appears from the documentation that there should be examples in
the \tapes
directory on the CD but I only see .map and .het files.

The documentation indicates that the TDF contains tape label
descriptors and
instructs the tape emulation where to find the data. I was
wondering if that
works for output as well, i.e., a write to the emulated tape would
use the TDF
to direct the data output?

--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen-***@public.gmane.org>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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[Jay Maynard]

Post by John Cassidy
I was wondering is there an existing Hercules utility to
treat (backup /restore) TDF files.

You're asking the wrong question. A TDF, as far as Hercules is concerned
(along with the files it describes), is nothing more than a reel of tape.
What you need to ask is what processes the contents of that TDF. That, of
course, depends on just what's in it.

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[John Cassidy]

Jay,

What I want to know is how can I restore TDF data:
i) uacxxx.TDF - TDF index

ii) \9999\9999001.A01 HEADERS - and the data portion.


Maybe my question is understandable now.

John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering

Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU

Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]

E-Mail: Sean-***@public.gmane.org
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Maynard [mailto:jmaynard-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 2:18 PM
To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF

Post by John Cassidy
I was wondering is there an existing Hercules utility

to

Post by John Cassidy
treat (backup /restore) TDF files.

You're asking the wrong question. A TDF, as far as Hercules is
concerned
(along with the files it describes), is nothing more than a reel
of tape.
What you need to ask is what processes the contents of that TDF.
That, of
course, depends on just what's in it.

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[Jay Maynard]

Post by John Cassidy
i) uacxxx.TDF - TDF index
ii) \9999\9999001.A01 HEADERS - and the data portion.
Maybe my question is understandable now.

Restore it to what? It's not different, to Hercules, than data contained on
an AWSTAPE tape file, or a real, physical tape. Put another way, how would
you restore the equivalent data on a real mainframe?

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[John Cassidy]

Jay,

From where the index and data portion reside, in a directory to
a 3390.

John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering

Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU

Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]

E-Mail: Sean-***@public.gmane.org
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Maynard [mailto:jmaynard-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 2:55 PM
To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF

Post by John Cassidy
i) uacxxx.TDF - TDF index
ii) \9999\9999001.A01 HEADERS - and the data portion.
Maybe my question is understandable now.

Restore it to what? It's not different, to Hercules, than data
contained on
an AWSTAPE tape file, or a real, physical tape. Put another way,
how would
you restore the equivalent data on a real mainframe?

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[Jay Maynard]

Post by John Cassidy
From where the index and data portion reside, in a directory to
a 3390.

Post by John Cassidy
i) uacxxx.TDF - TDF index
ii) \9999\9999001.A01 HEADERS - and the data portion.
Maybe my question is understandable now.

I still don't get it. Are you trying to copy the TDF description file itself
and the data files, unaltered, making a TDF and data on your DASD image? You
could probably convince dasdload to treat each one as a sequential file when
building a DASD volume, if you really wanted to do that, but what you'd have
then on disk is the same TDF-formatted tape image. You could also define
another TDF (sort of a meta-TDF) that would list the original TDF index as
one of the files to be loaded.

You're still coming at this from the wrong direction. Unless you want an
exact image of the TDF on your DASD (for which I can see no practical use),
forget it's a TDF. Think of it as a physical tape. What's the data on that
tape? How would you read it into an OS running on a z/900?

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[John Cassidy]

Jay,

I still don't get it... We are talking at cross purposes here. Of
course I do not want it in it's input format on DASD. I want to
restore it to DASD. It the TDF format is treated like AWS format,
then I will IPL from it.

Thanks for your help.

John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering

Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU

Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]

E-Mail: Sean-***@public.gmane.org
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Maynard [mailto:jmaynard-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 3:10 PM
To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF

Post by John Cassidy
From where the index and data portion reside, in a directory to
a 3390.

Post by John Cassidy
i) uacxxx.TDF - TDF index
ii) \9999\9999001.A01 HEADERS - and the data portion.
Maybe my question is understandable now.

I still don't get it. Are you trying to copy the TDF description
file itself
and the data files, unaltered, making a TDF and data on your DASD
image? You
could probably convince dasdload to treat each one as a sequential
file when
building a DASD volume, if you really wanted to do that, but what
you'd have
then on disk is the same TDF-formatted tape image. You could also
define
another TDF (sort of a meta-TDF) that would list the original TDF
index as
one of the files to be loaded.

You're still coming at this from the wrong direction. Unless you
want an
exact image of the TDF on your DASD (for which I can see no
practical use),
forget it's a TDF. Think of it as a physical tape. What's the data
on that
tape? How would you read it into an OS running on a z/900?

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[Fish]

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Hash: SHA1

What we have here is a failure to communicate... :)

Surf on over to the main Hercules web page:

http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/
("Hercules Installation and Operation")

Scroll down to: "Configuration Procedure":

http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/hercconf.html

Scroll down to the "Device records" section, where you see the box of
all the device types Hercules supports. Click on the link for the
'Tape drives' device:

http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/hercconf.html#tapedev

Read and learn. :)

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
fish-6N/dkqvhA+***@public.gmane.org

Fight Spam! Join CAUCE!
http://www.cauce.org/

Post by John Cassidy
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:15 AM
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF
Jay,
I still don't get it... We are talking at cross purposes here. Of
course I do not want it in it's input format on DASD. I want to
restore it to DASD. It the TDF format is treated like AWS format,
then I will IPL from it.
Thanks for your help.
John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering
Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU
Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

<snip previous>


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[John Cassidy]

Already have done son.

John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering

Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU

Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]

E-Mail: Sean-***@public.gmane.org
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Fish [mailto:fish-6N/dkqvhA+***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 3:44 PM
To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

What we have here is a failure to communicate... :)

Surf on over to the main Hercules web page:

http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/
("Hercules Installation and Operation")

Scroll down to: "Configuration Procedure":

http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/hercconf.html

Scroll down to the "Device records" section, where you see the box
of
all the device types Hercules supports. Click on the link for the
'Tape drives' device:

http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/hercconf.html#tapedev

Read and learn. :)

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
fish-6N/dkqvhA+***@public.gmane.org

Fight Spam! Join CAUCE!
http://www.cauce.org/

Post by John Cassidy
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:15 AM
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF
Jay,
I still don't get it... We are talking at cross purposes here.

Of

Post by John Cassidy
course I do not want it in it's input format on DASD. I want to
restore it to DASD. It the TDF format is treated like AWS

format,

Post by John Cassidy
then I will IPL from it.
Thanks for your help.
John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering
Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU
Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

<snip previous>


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=bNib
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[Fish]

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Then please forgive us for not understanding you, but I think maybe
it's because you're not using the right words to describe/explain
what it is you ultimately wish to accomplish.

I notice you're from Germany. We have several (probably many!) people
on this list who are from Germany and thus speak fluent German.
Perhaps if you asked your question in German one of the German
speaking members could then translate it for us?

PLEASE don't take that as an insult to your nationality or anything.
I'm simply trying to help. It's obvious we're each having trouble
understanding your problem, so I thought that perhaps it might be
more productive if you asked your question in the language you're
most familiar with: your native tongue.

Thanks.


(We're only trying to help!)

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
fish-6N/dkqvhA+***@public.gmane.org

Fight Spam! Join CAUCE!
http://www.cauce.org/

Post by John Cassidy
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:48 AM
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF
Importance: High
Already have done son.
John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering
Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU
Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

<snip previous>


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[John Cassidy]

Not quite correct, I live in the EU, if you would look at my
Surname, that might... give you and indication of what my native
language is.

Cordialement

John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering

Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU

Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]

E-Mail: Sean-***@public.gmane.org
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Fish [mailto:fish-6N/dkqvhA+***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 3:54 PM
To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Then please forgive us for not understanding you, but I think
maybe
it's because you're not using the right words to describe/explain
what it is you ultimately wish to accomplish.

I notice you're from Germany. We have several (probably many!)
people
on this list who are from Germany and thus speak fluent German.
Perhaps if you asked your question in German one of the German
speaking members could then translate it for us?

PLEASE don't take that as an insult to your nationality or
anything.
I'm simply trying to help. It's obvious we're each having trouble
understanding your problem, so I thought that perhaps it might be
more productive if you asked your question in the language you're
most familiar with: your native tongue.

Thanks.


(We're only trying to help!)

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
fish-6N/dkqvhA+***@public.gmane.org

Fight Spam! Join CAUCE!
http://www.cauce.org/

Post by John Cassidy
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:48 AM
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF
Importance: High
Already have done son.
John D. Cassidy Dipl.-Ing (Informatique)
S390 & zSeries Systems engineering
Schleswigstr. 7
D-51065 Cologne
EU
Tel: [phone] . GSM: [phone]
HTTP : www.jdcassidy.net

<snip previous>


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=gPy6
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[Jay Maynard]

Post by John Cassidy
I still don't get it... We are talking at cross purposes here. Of
course I do not want it in it's input format on DASD. I want to
restore it to DASD. It the TDF format is treated like AWS format,
then I will IPL from it.

Ah. Sounds like a standalone restore.

The only difference in hercules' processing of TDF and AWS files is that
TDFs are read-only. You can IPL from them (assuming they contain something
IPLable) just as you would an AWS (or, for that matter, HET) file.

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[John Cassidy]

Jay,

thanks for the replies, the data originally came from a
CD-ROM...


John

To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF

Post by John Cassidy
I still don't get it... We are talking at cross purposes here.

Of

Post by John Cassidy
course I do not want it in it's input format on DASD. I want to
restore it to DASD. It the TDF format is treated like AWS

format,

Post by John Cassidy
then I will IPL from it.

Ah. Sounds like a standalone restore.

The only difference in hercules' processing of TDF and AWS files
is that
TDFs are read-only. You can IPL from them (assuming they contain
something
IPLable) just as you would an AWS (or, for that matter, HET) file.

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[Jay Maynard]

Post by Binyamin Dissen
The documentation indicates that the TDF contains tape label descriptors and
instructs the tape emulation where to find the data. I was wondering if that
works for output as well, i.e., a write to the emulated tape would use the TDF
to direct the data output?

TDFs are read-only.

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[Volker Bandke]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Quite simple. Assume you have a few sequential files on our PC.

MYFILE1.TXT
MYFILE2.TXT
MYFILE3.XMI
MYFILE4.PS




Then you can create a TDF file like this

MYTDF.TDF:
@TDF
<path>/MYFILE1.TXT fixed recsize 80
<path>/MYFILE2.TXT fixed recsize 3120
<path>/MYFILE3.XMI fixed recsize 32720
<path>/MYFILE4.PS fixed recsize 1330


and place this file into the /tapes subdirectory of the hercules
structure.


then you can


devinit 480 tapes/MYTDF.TDF



This then will present to the OS a tape with 4 files on it:

LABEL=(1,NL),DCB=BLKSIZE=80
LABEL=(2,NL),DCB=BLKSIZE=3120
LABEL=(3,NL),DCB=BLKSIZE=32720
LABEL=(4,NL),DCB=BLKSIZE=1330




HTH










--
With kind Regards |\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
Volker Bandke |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
(BSP GmbH) '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

We'll cross out that bridge when we come back to it later.

(Another Wisdom from my fortune cookie jar)


- -----Original Message-----
From: Binyamin Dissen [mailto:bdissen-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 1:25 PM
To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF


I cannot find the description of the TDF format in the New Users
Guide.

It appears from the documentation that there should be examples in
the \tapes
directory on the CD but I only see .map and .het files.

The documentation indicates that the TDF contains tape label
descriptors and
instructs the tape emulation where to find the data. I was wondering
if that
works for output as well, i.e., a write to the emulated tape would
use the TDF
to direct the data output?

- --
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen-***@public.gmane.org>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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[Binyamin Dissen]

Where is the detailed documentation?

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:26:28 +0200 "Volker Bandke" <vbandke-YBl2UDX+LVZWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>
wrote:

:>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
:>Hash: SHA1
:>
:>Quite simple. Assume you have a few sequential files on our PC.
:>
:>MYFILE1.TXT
:>MYFILE2.TXT
:>MYFILE3.XMI
:>MYFILE4.PS
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>Then you can create a TDF file like this
:>
:>MYTDF.TDF:
:>@TDF
:><path>/MYFILE1.TXT fixed recsize 80
:><path>/MYFILE2.TXT fixed recsize 3120
:><path>/MYFILE3.XMI fixed recsize 32720
:><path>/MYFILE4.PS fixed recsize 1330
:>
:>
:>and place this file into the /tapes subdirectory of the hercules
:>structure.
:>
:>
:>then you can
:>
:>
:>devinit 480 tapes/MYTDF.TDF
:>
:>
:>
:>This then will present to the OS a tape with 4 files on it:
:>
:>LABEL=(1,NL),DCB=BLKSIZE=80
:>LABEL=(2,NL),DCB=BLKSIZE=3120
:>LABEL=(3,NL),DCB=BLKSIZE=32720
:>LABEL=(4,NL),DCB=BLKSIZE=1330

:>- -----Original Message-----
:>From: Binyamin Dissen [mailto:bdissen-***@public.gmane.org]
:>Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 1:25 PM
:>To: hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org
:>Subject: [hercules-390] Questions on TDF
:>
:>
:>I cannot find the description of the TDF format in the New Users
:>Guide.
:>
:>It appears from the documentation that there should be examples in
:>the \tapes
:>directory on the CD but I only see .map and .het files.
:>
:>The documentation indicates that the TDF contains tape label
:>descriptors and
:>instructs the tape emulation where to find the data. I was wondering
:>if that
:>works for output as well, i.e., a write to the emulated tape would
:>use the TDF
:>to direct the data output?


--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen-***@public.gmane.org>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

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