Discussion:
MTS Community
(too old to reply)
Harold Grovesteen h.grovsteen@tx.rr.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-05 16:19:06 UTC
Permalink
I decided to create a new thread, while the hijacked "MTS Assembler"
thread is the foundation, I would like to take the topic in a different
direction.

I have participated in more than one email conversation on the topic of
MTS assembler(s) and the TABLES module.

As Mike Stramba articulated, from the standpoint of making MTS useful,
the ability to modify the TABLES module seems to be advantageous,
assembler considerations aside. Only the most knowledgeable MTS
aficionado will be rewriting or wanting to assemble internal modules.

I also got the impression that there are no detailed descriptions of the
structure of the "module" once assembled. That, in fact, the macros
themselves are the documentation. I hope I am wrong on that count.

Documenting what this module looks like and what values are used in what
fields for what purposes seems to me to be a prerequisite to any
re-implementation.

At present, MTS has a very small community of MTS professionals.
Certainly that is needed. But, a broader community is needed to make it
survive. More than once, I have seen individuals start exploring MTS
and the first issue that arises is adding a new disk or some other
device for the person's exploration. I see some emails on the MTS list.
And then they die.

I have seen other efforts die for lack of community. Open Solaris on z
I believe is a recent example. The project was kept under wraps by the
implementers. When trouble developed, there was no place to go for help
and it died. There were those willing to help.

The inability to adjust the configuration seems to me to be a usability
hurdle limiting the MTS community's size. Once the module is
documented, others could conceivably work on getting a new
implementation with varying approaches possible, both from within MTS
and external to MTS. And, it may not require an MTS professional to do
that. Just someone who understands assembler macros.

MTS I believe is following in the same path as Open Solaris on z. The
MTS professionals seem to keep everything to themselves. Without
getting individuals outside of the current core group, it will have
difficulties moving forward. Overcoming the current usability issues I
believe is needed as a start to that. This is not meant as criticism,
but an observation based upon other lessons learned. I don't know what
priorities exist, if any. But making MTS easier for more people to
become involved I believe is critical. More involvement by the MTS core
group with the Hercules community from which the MTS community needs to
draw users would be encouraged. Out of sight, out of mind. For the
most part, MTS is out of sight.

Harold Grovesteen
somitcw@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-05 18:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harold Grovesteen ***@tx.rr.com [hercules-390]
I decided to create a new thread, while the hijacked "MTS Assembler"
thread is the foundation, I would like to take the topic in a different
direction.
Will the your new direction be on H390-MTS or some unrelated
forum like H390-music, hercules-390, or neanderthal-psychology ?
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-05 22:09:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
Post by Harold Grovesteen ***@tx.rr.com [hercules-390]
I decided to create a new thread, while the hijacked "MTS Assembler"
thread is the foundation, I would like to take the topic in a different
direction.
Will the your new direction be on H390-MTS or some unrelated
forum like H390-music, hercules-390, or neanderthal-psychology ?
Everybody is 1-3% Neanderthal.
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
Gavin Eadie gavin@umich.edu [hercules-390]
2015-12-05 19:22:02 UTC
Permalink
The MTS professionals seem to keep everything to themselves.
.. This remark is outright wrong and insulting.
Give me one example of withheld information.
And, there are no “MTS professionals” any more .. just some guys ..

.. did I just jump to the bait?
quatras.design@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 01:35:09 UTC
Permalink
Most likely what is meant by "MTS professionals" are people who worked on MTS as systems programmers on the real iron, people who worked for U of M or Wayne State University or other places it was running on. There are still a few people around who did that in the 80's and 90's. I used MTS in the 1980's time frame, but as a user not a tech support person. I suspect there are far more people like me who used MTS for a time than there are people who ever tried to modify it. I personally never saw MTS being IPL'd. All I ever saw is what every other user saw, the MTS signon screen, or more often, the MTS signon message on an ASCII terminal.


I remember just enough of MTS to *probably* use it again on Hercules, IF the thing were preconfigured. Since I so happen to live in Michigan where U-M and Wayne are, the stock MTS will already have my eastern time zone set. But if I needed to change anything else and had to assemble a "SYSGEN" of MTS, I could see where there could be problems.


If there really are people around who are knowledgeable about MTS internals, and they want to see MTS revived, it would benefit everyone if they would step forward and help improve the documentation, or put together an installation guide, or *something* to help out the newbies. The more people that can successfully use MTS, the greater the likelihood it can be saved from the great bit bucket in the sky. MTS isn't perfect and never was, but it's relatively easy to use and can be fun, something you can't always say about other systems. It's worth saving.
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 04:01:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
If there really are people around who are knowledgeable about MTS
internals, and they want to see MTS revived, it would benefit everyone if
they would step forward and help improve the documentation, or put together
an installation guide, or *something* to help out the newbies. The more
people that can successfully use MTS, the greater the likelihood it can be
saved from the great bit bucket in the sky. MTS isn't perfect and never
was, but it's relatively easy to use and can be fun, something you can't
always say about other systems. It's worth saving.
I typed "MTS Hercules" into google, got :

http://archive.michigan-terminal-system.org/mts-d60A

That site is IMO more than a little "*something* that you mention.

The download and instructions are as "turnkey" as vm370r6, turnkey / -4 MVS.

A couple links down in the above google search is

http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ , a very nice site
setup by AFAIK an MTS user.

Have you even bothered to install the system, or do you just like
talking (writing) about it ? :/

Mike
Gavin Eadie gavin@umich.edu [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 04:31:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
http://archive.michigan-terminal-system.org/mts-d60A
That site is IMO more than a little "*something* that you mention.
It would help me to know where the documentation gaps are. As Mike notes above, there is a lot of “installation guide” material already. We saw someone completely unfamiliar with MTS get it up and running on Hercules within 24 hours of our releasing it so it must be reasonably complete. I will gladly try and fill gaps but suggesting I “improve the documentation” doesn’t help.
quatras.design@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 04:49:03 UTC
Permalink
I have not installed it. I have considered trying to install it, since I just got a new system put together to run Hercules, and I happened to run across this discussion. I was hoping that the process was going to be relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds like it might be more trouble than it's worth. I have been a systems programmer before, but not on MTS; I was only an end user of it. The reason I have been butting in on this conversation is because I used MTS in the past. I don't claim to be an expert on it.
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 04:56:28 UTC
Permalink
I had only one minor problem getting it up and running, and that was
because I moved the location of the shadow file, from where the config
file was expecting it.

After that it was "smooth sailing"
Post by ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds like
it might be more trouble than it's worth.
Which "comments" ?

Follow these instructions, you should up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
I have not installed it. I have considered trying to install it, since I
just got a new system put together to run Hercules, and I happened to run
across this discussion. I was hoping that the process was going to be
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds like
it might be more trouble than it's worth. I have been a systems programmer
before, but not on MTS; I was only an end user of it. The reason I have
been butting in on this conversation is because I used MTS in the past. I
don't claim to be an expert on it.
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 09:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Follow these instructions, you should
up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
I was impressed that I could be up
and running with MTS in a few
minutes, so followed the above.

The download of d6.0A.zip from
google drive was quite confusing.
Instead of downloading, it kept
on displaying the files within the
archive. I eventually clicked on
the right thing to do a download.

Unzipping that had lots of strange
files, like some MAC stuff ...

C:\mts\d6.0A>dir \mts2
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195

Directory of C:\mts2

2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> .
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> ..
2012-01-19 09:03 <DIR> __MACOSX
0 File(s) 0 bytes
3 Dir(s) 49,391,509,504 bytes free

C:\mts\d6.0A>


I ignored that.

There were also these strange files:


2012-01-19 09:02 6,148 .DS_Store


Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.


This contained strange aws files:

C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0>dir *.aws
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195

Directory of C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0

2004-12-01 17:29 82 ._d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 82 ._d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 82 ._d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 82 ._d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 82 ._d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 82 ._d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 82 ._d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 82 ._d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 82 ._d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 82 ._d6.0util.aws
2004-12-01 17:29 104,297,638 d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 104,892,360 d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 101,143,132 d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 105,919,089 d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 113,920,131 d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 94,988,288 d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 117,708,295 d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 100,549,823 d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 114,755,897 d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 5,901,190 d6.0util.aws
20 File(s) 964,076,663 bytes
0 Dir(s) 50,522,161,152 bytes free


So instead of copying *.aws as per
documentation, I copied d*.aws instead.

Then my directories contained what
was shown in the documentation.


I started Hercules (I use Hercules/380
3.07 v4.0 for the tape enhancements -
there was no indication I couldn't use
this "older" version so long as I didn't change
the printer definitions, although I
probably do need to start the printer
eventually as I do all my work
remotely via card/tape/printer) and
got this error:

HHCCF051E Codepage conversion table 819/037 is not defined

Note that I normally use this:

CODEPAGE 819/1047

So that square brackets etc will be
transferred correctly for my C programs.


The instructions said to press PA2,
but I didn't know how to do that
with c3270. I eventually found that
I needed to press escape then
type in the words "PA 2" and
hit enter. Seemed to work.

I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
instruction:

"MTS *LAS"

did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.

I was going to post some of the
hercules log, but I found out that
there was no log created by
default.

So anyway, that was probably less
than an hour, but a failure.

Just a "newbie experience" I
thought I would document for
the record. :-)

BFN. Paul.




DT EXQ PRT PCH BP AB BPH AL VP RP DPA PA DA CA % PI Q TQ
20.00 0 0 0 3 0 0 2 1540 2373 0 0 0 0 99.68 0 0
*...*-Held Ex-Held
MTS *LAS

00018 MTS *CMD: The CMDSTAT pickup program has been started.
00004 MTS THE ACCOUNTING FILE IS AVAILABLE
00004 MTS 3 RECORDS
00008 MTS 0*** Post-IPL system successfully loaded.
00020 MTS *NAL1 complete
00022 MTS *NAL3 complete
00026 MTS *NAL7 complete
00024 MTS *NAL5 complete
00023 MTS *NAL4 complete
00021 MTS *NAL2 complete
00025 MTS *NAL6 complete
00019 MTS *NAL -> nalmap(10000) has changed. Component: SEG2:RMGRLOAD
00019 MTS *NAL -> (this message is just FYI, it is not an error).
00019 MTS This is not an error.
00019 MTS *NAL complete
00019 MTS PEEK initialization begins
00019 MTS PEEK initialization complete








---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

I had only one minor problem getting it up and running, and that was
because I moved the location of the shadow file, from where the config
file was expecting it.

After that it was "smooth sailing"
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds like
it might be more trouble than it's worth.
Which "comments" ?

Follow these instructions, you should up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I have not installed it. I have considered trying to install it, since I
just got a new system put together to run Hercules, and I happened to run
across this discussion. I was hoping that the process was going to be
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds like
it might be more trouble than it's worth. I have been a systems programmer
before, but not on MTS; I was only an end user of it. The reason I have
been butting in on this conversation is because I used MTS in the past. I
don't claim to be an expert on it.
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 09:43:03 UTC
Permalink
Oh yeah, one other thing that was
strange was the README and
COPYRIGHT files starting with
a blank. I've never seen that
before, although I have noticed
that Yahoo downloads put a
spurious "_" in front of the filename
when doing a download. That's
very strange too, and I've never
seen anything like that anywhere
before either.

BFN. Paul.




C:\mts\d6.0A>dir
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195

Directory of C:\mts\d6.0A

2015-12-09 19:23 <DIR> .
2015-12-09 19:23 <DIR> ..
2012-01-19 08:55 52,733 README-D6.0A.txt
2012-01-19 09:02 6,148 .DS_Store
2012-01-18 15:13 <DIR> Disks
2015-12-09 19:18 6,336 hercules.cnf
2012-01-19 07:45 6,471 hercules.cnf.bad
2015-12-09 19:42 <DIR> Tapes
2012-01-19 08:57 <DIR> Units
4 File(s) 71,688 bytes
5 Dir(s) 49,143,193,600 bytes free

C:\mts\d6.0A>e " README-D6.0A.txt"



C:\mts>dir
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195

Directory of C:\mts

2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> .
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> ..
2012-01-17 23:54 1,902 COPYRIGHT.txt
2012-01-18 00:41 26,284 README.txt
2012-01-19 09:02 6,148 .DS_Store
2015-12-09 19:23 <DIR> d6.0A
2012-01-18 00:42 <DIR> mtsDistDoc
3 File(s) 34,334 bytes
4 Dir(s) 49,142,288,384 bytes free

C:\mts>e " COPYRIGHT.txt"
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 09:46:17 UTC
Permalink
And one other comment.

I do all my work on DOS/VS, CMS, MVS,
and MUSIC/SP via an automated
startup with a 3215-C terminal, then
automatic job running then automatic
shutdown.

If I am forced to use a "real" 3270
terminal, I cannot implement a
"runmts" batch file that will
automatically run everything.

At this point I don't know whether
MTS is automatable like all the
other systems or not, but that
would be my first question.

BFN. Paul.
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 13:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
I do all my work on DOS/VS, CMS, MVS,
and MUSIC/SP via an automated
startup with a 3215-C terminal, then
automatic job running then automatic
shutdown.
(from H390-MTS, just after leaving h390!!!)
Dunno, but I'm interested in seeing your automation setups.
Maybe a topic for h390.
These things are already released
in the various 380 distributions.

I've shown some of the MVS ones
below. If you want to see the other
MVS ones, look here:

http://mvs380.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mvs380/mvs380/conf/

Let me know if you want the
VSE/380 or VM sixpack (standard)
ones. Actually a few months ago
I changed the sixpack ones a lot,
abandoning the card reader and
using a second tape drive instead.

BFN. Paul.




C:\mvs380\conf>type auto_run.rc
devlist
logopt timestamp
panrate 1000

# really need to wait for SVC120I, but if building MVS/380
# or some other stuffup with parms, need to trigger on an
# alternative. First one hit will clear targets.

# If we get a prompt for a device, cancel it
hao tgt IEF238D
hao cmd script conf/cancel.rc

hao tgt HASP395 DYNAMASK
hao cmd script conf/subjobs_slow.rc

hao tgt HASP373 SVC120I
hao cmd script conf/subjobs_fast.rc

hao tgt HASP436 REPLY
hao cmd script conf/replyy.rc

# co will give you a cold start of JES2 which is useful in
# automated runs
/r 00,clpa,cmd=co
#/r 00,clpa

ipl 148

C:\mvs380\conf>



C:\mvs380\conf>type subjobs_fast.rc
# Now we know that SVC120I has started. But due to some
# weird pausing, it may get locked out. So clear out
# other triggers and wait on this

hao clear

hao tgt IEF404I SVC120I
hao cmd script conf/subjobs.rc

C:\mvs380\conf>type subjobs.rc
hao clear

# Need a delay to prevent commands being executed too quickly
pause 1

# If we get a prompt for a device, cancel it
hao tgt IEF238D
hao cmd script conf/cancel.rc

# If we get a prompt for a catalogue password, answer it
hao tgt IEC301A
hao cmd script conf/secret.rc


# Delete everything that currently exists
/$ps1-9999
pause 1
/$pt1-9999
pause 1
/$pj1-9999

# Every job gets an NL tape available as input, containing
# some binary of unknown contents, most likely needing to
# be read as RECFM=U, but RECFM=FB and even RECFM=V are also
# possible.
#
# The job also gets an SL tape available for output, and
# again, any type of content can be written to it, and
# with a bit of luck, hetget will be able to extract the
# data you are looking for.
#
# And finally the job gets an SL AWS tape available for
# input and/or output should you wish to construct a
# special tape. Tape must be called AWSTAP. User should
# back the tape up before submitting it, because it will
# be overwritten and anything could go wrong. AWS is
# expected to be exceptional use of this procedure anyway

# We vary 403 online as well to avoid requests for an
# offline unit

# Hercules seems to be timing sensitive, so pause first
pause 1
/v 400-403,online
# And give MVS a chance to have first crack too
pause 1
# Try a couple more times, command doesn't always take
/v 400-403,online
pause 1
/v 400-403,online
pause 1

# Premount both tapes so that mount requests don't need
# to be responded to.
/M 400,VOL=(NL,PCTOMF)
pause 1
/M 401,VOL=(SL,MFTOPC)
pause 1
# Sometimes you have an external tape and it's simpler to
# just change this XXXXXX to its volser. But normally,
# AWSTAP is the fixed name
/M 402,VOL=(SL,AWSTAP)
#/M 402,VOL=(SL,XXXXXX)
pause 1

# Note that when the PC is busy, the mounts might not have
# taken effect yet, so should really have a trigger
pause 1

devinit 400 tapes/pctomf.tdf
devinit 401 tapes/mftopc.het
devinit 402 tapes/awstap.aws

# When we see TERMHERC get purged, our job is done
hao tgt HASP373 TERMHERC
hao cmd script conf/termherc.rc

# Now submit the job
pause 10
devinit 00c jcl/hercauto.jcl eof

C:\mvs380\conf>











---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

And one other comment.

I do all my work on DOS/VS, CMS, MVS,
and MUSIC/SP via an automated
startup with a 3215-C terminal, then
automatic job running then automatic
shutdown.

If I am forced to use a "real" 3270
terminal, I cannot implement a
"runmts" batch file that will
automatically run everything.

At this point I don't know whether
MTS is automatable like all the
other systems or not, but that
would be my first question.

BFN. Paul.
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 13:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Please post the VM stuff !

Interesting, I never thought of the HAO.

I thought you were running some kind of program inside a logged on
user, and somehow monitoring the system card reader.

Mike
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Hi Mike
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
I do all my work on DOS/VS, CMS, MVS,
and MUSIC/SP via an automated
startup with a 3215-C terminal, then
automatic job running then automatic
shutdown.
(from H390-MTS, just after leaving h390!!!)
Dunno, but I'm interested in seeing your automation setups.
Maybe a topic for h390.
These things are already released
in the various 380 distributions.
I've shown some of the MVS ones
below. If you want to see the other
http://mvs380.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mvs380/mvs380/conf/
Let me know if you want the
VSE/380 or VM sixpack (standard)
ones. Actually a few months ago
I changed the sixpack ones a lot,
abandoning the card reader and
using a second tape drive instead.
BFN. Paul.
C:\mvs380\conf>type auto_run.rc
devlist
logopt timestamp
panrate 1000
# really need to wait for SVC120I, but if building MVS/380
# or some other stuffup with parms, need to trigger on an
# alternative. First one hit will clear targets.
# If we get a prompt for a device, cancel it
hao tgt IEF238D
hao cmd script conf/cancel.rc
hao tgt HASP395 DYNAMASK
hao cmd script conf/subjobs_slow.rc
hao tgt HASP373 SVC120I
hao cmd script conf/subjobs_fast.rc
hao tgt HASP436 REPLY
hao cmd script conf/replyy.rc
# co will give you a cold start of JES2 which is useful in
# automated runs
/r 00,clpa,cmd=co
#/r 00,clpa
ipl 148
C:\mvs380\conf>
C:\mvs380\conf>type subjobs_fast.rc
# Now we know that SVC120I has started. But due to some
# weird pausing, it may get locked out. So clear out
# other triggers and wait on this
hao clear
hao tgt IEF404I SVC120I
hao cmd script conf/subjobs.rc
C:\mvs380\conf>type subjobs.rc
hao clear
# Need a delay to prevent commands being executed too quickly
pause 1
# If we get a prompt for a device, cancel it
hao tgt IEF238D
hao cmd script conf/cancel.rc
# If we get a prompt for a catalogue password, answer it
hao tgt IEC301A
hao cmd script conf/secret.rc
# Delete everything that currently exists
/$ps1-9999
pause 1
/$pt1-9999
pause 1
/$pj1-9999
# Every job gets an NL tape available as input, containing
# some binary of unknown contents, most likely needing to
# be read as RECFM=U, but RECFM=FB and even RECFM=V are also
# possible.
#
# The job also gets an SL tape available for output, and
# again, any type of content can be written to it, and
# with a bit of luck, hetget will be able to extract the
# data you are looking for.
#
# And finally the job gets an SL AWS tape available for
# input and/or output should you wish to construct a
# special tape. Tape must be called AWSTAP. User should
# back the tape up before submitting it, because it will
# be overwritten and anything could go wrong. AWS is
# expected to be exceptional use of this procedure anyway
# We vary 403 online as well to avoid requests for an
# offline unit
# Hercules seems to be timing sensitive, so pause first
pause 1
/v 400-403,online
# And give MVS a chance to have first crack too
pause 1
# Try a couple more times, command doesn't always take
/v 400-403,online
pause 1
/v 400-403,online
pause 1
# Premount both tapes so that mount requests don't need
# to be responded to.
/M 400,VOL=(NL,PCTOMF)
pause 1
/M 401,VOL=(SL,MFTOPC)
pause 1
# Sometimes you have an external tape and it's simpler to
# just change this XXXXXX to its volser. But normally,
# AWSTAP is the fixed name
/M 402,VOL=(SL,AWSTAP)
#/M 402,VOL=(SL,XXXXXX)
pause 1
# Note that when the PC is busy, the mounts might not have
# taken effect yet, so should really have a trigger
pause 1
devinit 400 tapes/pctomf.tdf
devinit 401 tapes/mftopc.het
devinit 402 tapes/awstap.aws
# When we see TERMHERC get purged, our job is done
hao tgt HASP373 TERMHERC
hao cmd script conf/termherc.rc
# Now submit the job
pause 10
devinit 00c jcl/hercauto.jcl eof
C:\mvs380\conf>
And one other comment.
I do all my work on DOS/VS, CMS, MVS,
and MUSIC/SP via an automated
startup with a 3215-C terminal, then
automatic job running then automatic
shutdown.
If I am forced to use a "real" 3270
terminal, I cannot implement a
"runmts" batch file that will
automatically run everything.
At this point I don't know whether
MTS is automatable like all the
other systems or not, but that
would be my first question.
BFN. Paul.
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-10 02:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Here are the requested VM sixpack
automatic scripts.

BFN. Paul.




C:\devel\vm380>type autorun.rc
# Designed to be used in conjunction with runcms.
# See runcms for more information.

script autologgcc.rc
pause 1
devinit 580 IO/pctomf.tdf
devinit 581 IO/mftopc.het
devinit 481 IO/hercauto.tdf
pause 1
/set blip off
pause 1
/access 191 d
pause 1
/access 291 a (erase
pause 1
/access 391 b (erase
pause 1
/access 491 c
pause 1
/att 481 * 184
pause 1
/filedef input tap4 (lrecl 0 blksize 32760 recfm u
pause 1
/mvsunzip dd:input
pause 2
/filedef input clear
pause 1
/att 580 * 181
pause 1
/att 581 * 182
pause 1
hao tgt Ready;
hao cmd script termvm.rc
/exec hercauto

C:\devel\vm380>type autologgcc.rc
panrate 1000
/cold
ipl 141
pause 6
/cp disc
pause 2
/logon gcccms gcccms
pause 4

# for some reason it helps if we stick a command in sometimes
/set blip off
pause 1

C:\devel\vm380>





---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Please post the VM stuff !

Interesting, I never thought of the HAO.

I thought you were running some kind of program inside a logged on
user, and somehow monitoring the system card reader.

Mike
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Hi Mike
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
I do all my work on DOS/VS, CMS, MVS,
and MUSIC/SP via an automated
startup with a 3215-C terminal, then
automatic job running then automatic
shutdown.
(from H390-MTS, just after leaving h390!!!)
Dunno, but I'm interested in seeing your automation setups.
Maybe a topic for h390.
These things are already released
in the various 380 distributions.
I've shown some of the MVS ones
below. If you want to see the other
http://mvs380.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mvs380/mvs380/conf/ http://mvs380.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mvs380/mvs380/conf/
Let me know if you want the
VSE/380 or VM sixpack (standard)
ones. Actually a few months ago
I changed the sixpack ones a lot,
abandoning the card reader and
using a second tape drive instead.
BFN. Paul.
C:\mvs380\conf>type auto_run.rc
devlist
logopt timestamp
panrate 1000
# really need to wait for SVC120I, but if building MVS/380
# or some other stuffup with parms, need to trigger on an
# alternative. First one hit will clear targets.
# If we get a prompt for a device, cancel it
hao tgt IEF238D
hao cmd script conf/cancel.rc
hao tgt HASP395 DYNAMASK
hao cmd script conf/subjobs_slow.rc
hao tgt HASP373 SVC120I
hao cmd script conf/subjobs_fast.rc
hao tgt HASP436 REPLY
hao cmd script conf/replyy.rc
# co will give you a cold start of JES2 which is useful in
# automated runs
/r 00,clpa,cmd=co
#/r 00,clpa
ipl 148
C:\mvs380\conf>
C:\mvs380\conf>type subjobs_fast.rc
# Now we know that SVC120I has started. But due to some
# weird pausing, it may get locked out. So clear out
# other triggers and wait on this
hao clear
hao tgt IEF404I SVC120I
hao cmd script conf/subjobs.rc
C:\mvs380\conf>type subjobs.rc
hao clear
# Need a delay to prevent commands being executed too quickly
pause 1
# If we get a prompt for a device, cancel it
hao tgt IEF238D
hao cmd script conf/cancel.rc
# If we get a prompt for a catalogue password, answer it
hao tgt IEC301A
hao cmd script conf/secret.rc
# Delete everything that currently exists
/$ps1-9999
pause 1
/$pt1-9999
pause 1
/$pj1-9999
# Every job gets an NL tape available as input, containing
# some binary of unknown contents, most likely needing to
# be read as RECFM=U, but RECFM=FB and even RECFM=V are also
# possible.
#
# The job also gets an SL tape available for output, and
# again, any type of content can be written to it, and
# with a bit of luck, hetget will be able to extract the
# data you are looking for.
#
# And finally the job gets an SL AWS tape available for
# input and/or output should you wish to construct a
# special tape. Tape must be called AWSTAP. User should
# back the tape up before submitting it, because it will
# be overwritten and anything could go wrong. AWS is
# expected to be exceptional use of this procedure anyway
# We vary 403 online as well to avoid requests for an
# offline unit
# Hercules seems to be timing sensitive, so pause first
pause 1
/v 400-403,online
# And give MVS a chance to have first crack too
pause 1
# Try a couple more times, command doesn't always take
/v 400-403,online
pause 1
/v 400-403,online
pause 1
# Premount both tapes so that mount requests don't need
# to be responded to.
/M 400,VOL=(NL,PCTOMF)
pause 1
/M 401,VOL=(SL,MFTOPC)
pause 1
# Sometimes you have an external tape and it's simpler to
# just change this XXXXXX to its volser. But normally,
# AWSTAP is the fixed name
/M 402,VOL=(SL,AWSTAP)
#/M 402,VOL=(SL,XXXXXX)
pause 1
# Note that when the PC is busy, the mounts might not have
# taken effect yet, so should really have a trigger
pause 1
devinit 400 tapes/pctomf.tdf
devinit 401 tapes/mftopc.het
devinit 402 tapes/awstap.aws
# When we see TERMHERC get purged, our job is done
hao tgt HASP373 TERMHERC
hao cmd script conf/termherc.rc
# Now submit the job
pause 10
devinit 00c jcl/hercauto.jcl eof
C:\mvs380\conf>
And one other comment.
I do all my work on DOS/VS, CMS, MVS,
and MUSIC/SP via an automated
startup with a 3215-C terminal, then
automatic job running then automatic
shutdown.
If I am forced to use a "real" 3270
terminal, I cannot implement a
"runmts" batch file that will
automatically run everything.
At this point I don't know whether
MTS is automatable like all the
other systems or not, but that
would be my first question.
BFN. Paul.
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 10:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Paul,

Are you a member of H390-MTS ? If not you may want to join and post
there, more Mts knowledgeable foks there I would think, though I've
seen a few H390 "regulars" over there as well.
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.
Despite what Rupert says on his try-mts, site, the "raw" download
without the d6. tapes seems to have more than just a "bootable"
system. I used it for a day, exploring all the compilers before
downloading the tape file. Anyway, you have it now,there is lots of
source code on there to peruse. Look at the D6.0-INDEX.txt,
D6.0-DRIVER.txt files to see what's on the tapes.

Ya the _XX files seem to be some kind of Mac thing ;)
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
"MTS *LAS"
did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.
Before the MTS *LAS command there is :
HASP
MTS *HSP

Did you run those ?

I just tried starting the system *without* the HASP / MTS *HSP, but
I didn't do on a "virgin" system, and the terminals *did* start
anyway. I don't know what effect, if any not running HASP / MTS
*hsp would have on the MTS *las command.

Mike
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Follow these instructions, you should
up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
I was impressed that I could be up
and running with MTS in a few
minutes, so followed the above.
The download of d6.0A.zip from
google drive was quite confusing.
Instead of downloading, it kept
on displaying the files within the
archive. I eventually clicked on
the right thing to do a download.
Unzipping that had lots of strange
files, like some MAC stuff ...
C:\mts\d6.0A>dir \mts2
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195
Directory of C:\mts2
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> .
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> ..
2012-01-19 09:03 <DIR> __MACOSX
0 File(s) 0 bytes
3 Dir(s) 49,391,509,504 bytes free
C:\mts\d6.0A>
I ignored that.
2012-01-19 09:02 6,148 .DS_Store
Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.
C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0>dir *.aws
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195
Directory of C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0
2004-12-01 17:29 82 ._d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 82 ._d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 82 ._d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 82 ._d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 82 ._d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 82 ._d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 82 ._d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 82 ._d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 82 ._d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 82 ._d6.0util.aws
2004-12-01 17:29 104,297,638 d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 104,892,360 d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 101,143,132 d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 105,919,089 d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 113,920,131 d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 94,988,288 d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 117,708,295 d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 100,549,823 d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 114,755,897 d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 5,901,190 d6.0util.aws
20 File(s) 964,076,663 bytes
0 Dir(s) 50,522,161,152 bytes free
So instead of copying *.aws as per
documentation, I copied d*.aws instead.
Then my directories contained what
was shown in the documentation.
I started Hercules (I use Hercules/380
3.07 v4.0 for the tape enhancements -
there was no indication I couldn't use
this "older" version so long as I didn't change
the printer definitions, although I
probably do need to start the printer
eventually as I do all my work
remotely via card/tape/printer) and
HHCCF051E Codepage conversion table 819/037 is not defined
CODEPAGE 819/1047
So that square brackets etc will be
transferred correctly for my C programs.
The instructions said to press PA2,
but I didn't know how to do that
with c3270. I eventually found that
I needed to press escape then
type in the words "PA 2" and
hit enter. Seemed to work.
I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
"MTS *LAS"
did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.
I was going to post some of the
hercules log, but I found out that
there was no log created by
default.
So anyway, that was probably less
than an hour, but a failure.
Just a "newbie experience" I
thought I would document for
the record. :-)
BFN. Paul.
DT EXQ PRT PCH BP AB BPH AL VP RP DPA PA DA CA % PI Q TQ
20.00 0 0 0 3 0 0 2 1540 2373 0 0 0 0 99.68 0 0
*...*-Held Ex-Held
MTS *LAS
00018 MTS *CMD: The CMDSTAT pickup program has been started.
00004 MTS THE ACCOUNTING FILE IS AVAILABLE
00004 MTS 3 RECORDS
00008 MTS 0*** Post-IPL system successfully loaded.
00020 MTS *NAL1 complete
00022 MTS *NAL3 complete
00026 MTS *NAL7 complete
00024 MTS *NAL5 complete
00023 MTS *NAL4 complete
00021 MTS *NAL2 complete
00025 MTS *NAL6 complete
00019 MTS *NAL -> nalmap(10000) has changed. Component: SEG2:RMGRLOAD
00019 MTS *NAL -> (this message is just FYI, it is not an error).
00019 MTS This is not an error.
00019 MTS *NAL complete
00019 MTS PEEK initialization begins
00019 MTS PEEK initialization complete
I had only one minor problem getting it up and running, and that was
because I moved the location of the shadow file, from where the config
file was expecting it.
After that it was "smooth sailing"
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds
like
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
it might be more trouble than it's worth.
Which "comments" ?
Follow these instructions, you should up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I have not installed it. I have considered trying to install it, since I
just got a new system put together to run Hercules, and I happened to run
across this discussion. I was hoping that the process was going to be
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds
like
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
it might be more trouble than it's worth. I have been a systems
programmer
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
before, but not on MTS; I was only an end user of it. The reason I have
been butting in on this conversation is because I used MTS in the past. I
don't claim to be an expert on it.
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 10:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Are you a member of H390-MTS ?
Yes, but thanks to this neo crap, it
doesn't appear in my top 10, so I
don't see messages there unless
I explicitly click on "all my groups".
The old system was much better.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
If not you may want to join and post
there, more Mts knowledgeable
foks there I would think, though I've
seen a few H390 "regulars" over there as well.
Ok. I'll do that when I start a thread
instead of replying.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
HASP
MTS *HSP
Did you run those ?
Yes, I believe so, but don't have proof.
Even if I had the hercules.log it may
not show what is being done on the
console.

BFN. Paul.




---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Paul,

Are you a member of H390-MTS ? If not you may want to join and post
there, more Mts knowledgeable foks there I would think, though I've
seen a few H390 "regulars" over there as well.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.
Despite what Rupert says on his try-mts, site, the "raw" download
without the d6. tapes seems to have more than just a "bootable"
system. I used it for a day, exploring all the compilers before
downloading the tape file. Anyway, you have it now,there is lots of
source code on there to peruse. Look at the D6.0-INDEX.txt,
D6.0-DRIVER.txt files to see what's on the tapes.

Ya the _XX files seem to be some kind of Mac thing ;)
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
"MTS *LAS"
did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.
Before the MTS *LAS command there is :
HASP
MTS *HSP

Did you run those ?

I just tried starting the system *without* the HASP / MTS *HSP, but
I didn't do on a "virgin" system, and the terminals *did* start
anyway. I don't know what effect, if any not running HASP / MTS
*hsp would have on the MTS *las command.

Mike
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Follow these instructions, you should
up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
I was impressed that I could be up
and running with MTS in a few
minutes, so followed the above.
The download of d6.0A.zip from
google drive was quite confusing.
Instead of downloading, it kept
on displaying the files within the
archive. I eventually clicked on
the right thing to do a download.
Unzipping that had lots of strange
files, like some MAC stuff ...
C:\mts\d6.0A>dir \mts2
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195
Directory of C:\mts2
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> .
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> ..
2012-01-19 09:03 <DIR> __MACOSX
0 File(s) 0 bytes
3 Dir(s) 49,391,509,504 bytes free
C:\mts\d6.0A>
I ignored that.
2012-01-19 09:02 6,148 .DS_Store
Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.
C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0>dir *.aws
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195
Directory of C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0
2004-12-01 17:29 82 ._d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 82 ._d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 82 ._d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 82 ._d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 82 ._d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 82 ._d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 82 ._d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 82 ._d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 82 ._d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 82 ._d6.0util.aws
2004-12-01 17:29 104,297,638 d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 104,892,360 d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 101,143,132 d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 105,919,089 d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 113,920,131 d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 94,988,288 d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 117,708,295 d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 100,549,823 d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 114,755,897 d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 5,901,190 d6.0util.aws
20 File(s) 964,076,663 bytes
0 Dir(s) 50,522,161,152 bytes free
So instead of copying *.aws as per
documentation, I copied d*.aws instead.
Then my directories contained what
was shown in the documentation.
I started Hercules (I use Hercules/380
3.07 v4.0 for the tape enhancements -
there was no indication I couldn't use
this "older" version so long as I didn't change
the printer definitions, although I
probably do need to start the printer
eventually as I do all my work
remotely via card/tape/printer) and
HHCCF051E Codepage conversion table 819/037 is not defined
CODEPAGE 819/1047
So that square brackets etc will be
transferred correctly for my C programs.
The instructions said to press PA2,
but I didn't know how to do that
with c3270. I eventually found that
I needed to press escape then
type in the words "PA 2" and
hit enter. Seemed to work.
I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
"MTS *LAS"
did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.
I was going to post some of the
hercules log, but I found out that
there was no log created by
default.
So anyway, that was probably less
than an hour, but a failure.
Just a "newbie experience" I
thought I would document for
the record. :-)
BFN. Paul.
DT EXQ PRT PCH BP AB BPH AL VP RP DPA PA DA CA % PI Q TQ
20.00 0 0 0 3 0 0 2 1540 2373 0 0 0 0 99.68 0 0
*...*-Held Ex-Held
MTS *LAS
00018 MTS *CMD: The CMDSTAT pickup program has been started.
00004 MTS THE ACCOUNTING FILE IS AVAILABLE
00004 MTS 3 RECORDS
00008 MTS 0*** Post-IPL system successfully loaded.
00020 MTS *NAL1 complete
00022 MTS *NAL3 complete
00026 MTS *NAL7 complete
00024 MTS *NAL5 complete
00023 MTS *NAL4 complete
00021 MTS *NAL2 complete
00025 MTS *NAL6 complete
00019 MTS *NAL -> nalmap(10000) has changed. Component: SEG2:RMGRLOAD
00019 MTS *NAL -> (this message is just FYI, it is not an error).
00019 MTS This is not an error.
00019 MTS *NAL complete
00019 MTS PEEK initialization begins
00019 MTS PEEK initialization complete
I had only one minor problem getting it up and running, and that was
because I moved the location of the shadow file, from where the config
file was expecting it.
After that it was "smooth sailing"
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds
like
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
it might be more trouble than it's worth.
Which "comments" ?
Follow these instructions, you should up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I have not installed it. I have considered trying to install it, since I
just got a new system put together to run Hercules, and I happened to run
across this discussion. I was hoping that the process was going to be
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds
like
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
it might be more trouble than it's worth. I have been a systems
programmer
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
before, but not on MTS; I was only an end user of it. The reason I have
been butting in on this conversation is because I used MTS in the past. I
don't claim to be an expert on it.
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 11:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Paul,

Did you try a clearScrn aka ATTN on the other 3270 ?

You can also try on the operator console :
(might want to start a hercules log first to capture log log1)

units t 3270

*Before* running MTS *las the only "3270 job" will be Dev #1 (or
whatever the device # was the first 3270 you connected. The other
3270 "unit list" will have the last column blank

06:07:42 00031 06:07:42 UNITS DS01 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0001 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0001 Job: 00002
06:07:42 00031 06:07:42 UNITS DS02 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0002 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0002
06:07:42 00031 06:07:42 UNITS DS03 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0003 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0003
.....

After running MTS *las I have : jobs running on dev 2-5 :

06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS01 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0001 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0001 Job: 00002
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS02 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0002 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0002 Job: 00044
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS03 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0003 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0003 Job: 00045
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS04 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0004 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0004 Job: 00046
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS05 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0005 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0005 Job: 00047

06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS06 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0006 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0006
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS07 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0007 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0007
....

Mike
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Are you a member of H390-MTS ?
Yes, but thanks to this neo crap, it
doesn't appear in my top 10, so I
don't see messages there unless
I explicitly click on "all my groups".
The old system was much better.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
If not you may want to join and post
there, more Mts knowledgeable
foks there I would think, though I've
seen a few H390 "regulars" over there as well.
Ok. I'll do that when I start a thread
instead of replying.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
HASP
MTS *HSP
Did you run those ?
Yes, I believe so, but don't have proof.
Even if I had the hercules.log it may
not show what is being done on the
console.
BFN. Paul.
Paul,
Are you a member of H390-MTS ? If not you may want to join and post
there, more Mts knowledgeable foks there I would think, though I've
seen a few H390 "regulars" over there as well.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.
Despite what Rupert says on his try-mts, site, the "raw" download
without the d6. tapes seems to have more than just a "bootable"
system. I used it for a day, exploring all the compilers before
downloading the tape file. Anyway, you have it now,there is lots of
source code on there to peruse. Look at the D6.0-INDEX.txt,
D6.0-DRIVER.txt files to see what's on the tapes.
Ya the _XX files seem to be some kind of Mac thing ;)
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
"MTS *LAS"
did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.
HASP
MTS *HSP
Did you run those ?
I just tried starting the system *without* the HASP / MTS *HSP, but
I didn't do on a "virgin" system, and the terminals *did* start
anyway. I don't know what effect, if any not running HASP / MTS
*hsp would have on the MTS *las command.
Mike
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Follow these instructions, you should
up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I was impressed that I could be up
and running with MTS in a few
minutes, so followed the above.
The download of d6.0A.zip from
google drive was quite confusing.
Instead of downloading, it kept
on displaying the files within the
archive. I eventually clicked on
the right thing to do a download.
Unzipping that had lots of strange
files, like some MAC stuff ...
C:\mts\d6.0A>dir \mts2
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195
Directory of C:\mts2
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> .
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> ..
2012-01-19 09:03 <DIR> __MACOSX
0 File(s) 0 bytes
3 Dir(s) 49,391,509,504 bytes free
C:\mts\d6.0A>
I ignored that.
2012-01-19 09:02 6,148 .DS_Store
Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.
C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0>dir *.aws
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195
Directory of C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0
2004-12-01 17:29 82 ._d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 82 ._d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 82 ._d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 82 ._d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 82 ._d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 82 ._d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 82 ._d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 82 ._d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 82 ._d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 82 ._d6.0util.aws
2004-12-01 17:29 104,297,638 d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 104,892,360 d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 101,143,132 d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 105,919,089 d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 113,920,131 d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 94,988,288 d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 117,708,295 d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 100,549,823 d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 114,755,897 d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 5,901,190 d6.0util.aws
20 File(s) 964,076,663 bytes
0 Dir(s) 50,522,161,152 bytes free
So instead of copying *.aws as per
documentation, I copied d*.aws instead.
Then my directories contained what
was shown in the documentation.
I started Hercules (I use Hercules/380
3.07 v4.0 for the tape enhancements -
there was no indication I couldn't use
this "older" version so long as I didn't change
the printer definitions, although I
probably do need to start the printer
eventually as I do all my work
remotely via card/tape/printer) and
HHCCF051E Codepage conversion table 819/037 is not defined
CODEPAGE 819/1047
So that square brackets etc will be
transferred correctly for my C programs.
The instructions said to press PA2,
but I didn't know how to do that
with c3270. I eventually found that
I needed to press escape then
type in the words "PA 2" and
hit enter. Seemed to work.
I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
"MTS *LAS"
did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.
I was going to post some of the
hercules log, but I found out that
there was no log created by
default.
So anyway, that was probably less
than an hour, but a failure.
Just a "newbie experience" I
thought I would document for
the record. :-)
BFN. Paul.
DT EXQ PRT PCH BP AB BPH AL VP RP DPA PA DA CA % PI Q TQ
20.00 0 0 0 3 0 0 2 1540 2373 0 0 0 0 99.68 0 0
*...*-Held Ex-Held
MTS *LAS
00018 MTS *CMD: The CMDSTAT pickup program has been started.
00004 MTS THE ACCOUNTING FILE IS AVAILABLE
00004 MTS 3 RECORDS
00008 MTS 0*** Post-IPL system successfully loaded.
00020 MTS *NAL1 complete
00022 MTS *NAL3 complete
00026 MTS *NAL7 complete
00024 MTS *NAL5 complete
00023 MTS *NAL4 complete
00021 MTS *NAL2 complete
00025 MTS *NAL6 complete
00019 MTS *NAL -> nalmap(10000) has changed. Component: SEG2:RMGRLOAD
00019 MTS *NAL -> (this message is just FYI, it is not an error).
00019 MTS This is not an error.
00019 MTS *NAL complete
00019 MTS PEEK initialization begins
00019 MTS PEEK initialization complete
I had only one minor problem getting it up and running, and that was
because I moved the location of the shadow file, from where the config
file was expecting it.
After that it was "smooth sailing"
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds
like
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
it might be more trouble than it's worth.
Which "comments" ?
Follow these instructions, you should up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I have not installed it. I have considered trying to install it, since
I
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
just got a new system put together to run Hercules, and I happened to
run
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
across this discussion. I was hoping that the process was going to be
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds
like
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
it might be more trouble than it's worth. I have been a systems
programmer
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
before, but not on MTS; I was only an end user of it. The reason I have
been butting in on this conversation is because I used MTS in the past.
I
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
don't claim to be an expert on it.
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 11:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Not sure if this is a double send. The
Yahoo interface sent me back to your
email, but luckily I had done a copy
before that happened.
Did you try a clearScrn aka ATTN on the other 3270 ?
No. I just followed the instructions.


Anyway, I've just tried going through
the sequence again.

This time, I got to the spot where it
says to press PA2, but I decided to
wait until the system was quiet.

The system came up with this
message:

00019 MTS PEEK initialization complete

even BEFORE I had a chance to
press PA2. I don't know whether
that means I still need to press PA2.

Regardles, here is what the Hercules
console looks like before I press PA2:


00019 06:20:17 MTS *NAL -> (this message is just FYI, it is not an er
00019 06:20:17 MTS This is not an error.
00019 06:20:17 MTS *NAL complete
00019 06:20:17 MTS PEEK initialization begins
00019 06:20:20 MTS PEEK initialization complete



and here is after PA2:


00019 06:20:17 MTS *NAL -> (this message is just FYI, it is not an er
00019 06:20:17 MTS This is not an error.
00019 06:20:17 MTS *NAL complete
00019 06:20:17 MTS PEEK initialization begins
00019 06:20:20 MTS PEEK initialization complete
00007 06:19:54 MTS..*** Cancelled ***



Quite odd to see an earlier timestamp appear.
Also odd that it's only a few seconds. The
gap in pressing PA2 was a number of minutes.

Here's what the Hercules log looks like
after I've followed the instructions to
type HASP, MTS *HSP and started a
second 3270 terminal:


00007 06:19:54 MTS..*** Cancelled ***
06:28:04 00029..HASP
00029 06:28:04 HASP HASP initialization -- phase 2
00031 06:28:04 HASPLING $*Enter HASP requests
06:28:34 00035..MTS *HSP
00031 06:28:34 HASPLING $*OK
00031 06:28:34 HASPLING $*OK
00035 06:28:34 MTS HASP START (17 January 2012)
HHCTE009I Client 127.0.0.1 connected to 3270 device 0:0002


Now I try typing mts *las and hey
presto, this time I got the MTS
screen so I can continue!!!


The Hercules console shows:

00035 06:28:34 MTS HASP START (17 January 2012)
HHCTE009I Client 127.0.0.1 connected to 3270 device 0:0002
06:30:46 00039..MTS *LAS
00039 06:30:46 MTS Line configuration (17 January 2012)
00039 06:30:46 MTS Jobs on: DS02-DS05
00039 06:30:46 MTS Other: *CLK, *TPR, *MGR, *TCM, *FTPSERV
00046 06:30:46 MTS The Messagefile Manager has started up successfully
00047 06:30:47 MTS There are no available Telnet (TLNT) connections.


And now I have confirmed that I can
log on to the userid and do some
basic commands like "fi" to list
files.

So I guess this has taken something
like 1.5 hours in total, including
documenting all this, and at the
end of the day, success. Thanks for
your help. :-)
Why don't you just interact from your email client ?
I'm loathe to flood my email with a large
number of groups that I am subscribed
to but rarely read.

BFN. Paul.






---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Paul,

Did you try a clearScrn aka ATTN on the other 3270 ?

You can also try on the operator console :
(might want to start a hercules log first to capture log log1)

units t 3270

*Before* running MTS *las the only "3270 job" will be Dev #1 (or
whatever the device # was the first 3270 you connected. The other
3270 "unit list" will have the last column blank

06:07:42 00031 06:07:42 UNITS DS01 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0001 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0001 Job: 00002
06:07:42 00031 06:07:42 UNITS DS02 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0002 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0002
06:07:42 00031 06:07:42 UNITS DS03 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0003 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0003
.....

After running MTS *las I have : jobs running on dev 2-5 :

06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS01 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0001 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0001 Job: 00002
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS02 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0002 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0002 Job: 00044
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS03 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0003 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0003 Job: 00045
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS04 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0004 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0004 Job: 00046
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS05 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0005 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0005 Job: 00047

06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS06 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0006 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0006
06:08:30 00053 06:08:30 UNITS DS07 Type: 3270 DevNum: 0007 (ON )
LPM: 80 Sch: 0007
....

Mike
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Are you a member of H390-MTS ?
Yes, but thanks to this neo crap, it
doesn't appear in my top 10, so I
don't see messages there unless
I explicitly click on "all my groups".
The old system was much better.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
If not you may want to join and post
there, more Mts knowledgeable
foks there I would think, though I've
seen a few H390 "regulars" over there as well.
Ok. I'll do that when I start a thread
instead of replying.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
HASP
MTS *HSP
Did you run those ?
Yes, I believe so, but don't have proof.
Even if I had the hercules.log it may
not show what is being done on the
console.
BFN. Paul.
Paul,
Are you a member of H390-MTS ? If not you may want to join and post
there, more Mts knowledgeable foks there I would think, though I've
seen a few H390 "regulars" over there as well.
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.
Despite what Rupert says on his try-mts, site, the "raw" download
without the d6. tapes seems to have more than just a "bootable"
system. I used it for a day, exploring all the compilers before
downloading the tape file. Anyway, you have it now,there is lots of
source code on there to peruse. Look at the D6.0-INDEX.txt,
D6.0-DRIVER.txt files to see what's on the tapes.
Ya the _XX files seem to be some kind of Mac thing ;)
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
"MTS *LAS"
did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.
HASP
MTS *HSP
Did you run those ?
I just tried starting the system *without* the HASP / MTS *HSP, but
I didn't do on a "virgin" system, and the terminals *did* start
anyway. I don't know what effect, if any not running HASP / MTS
*hsp would have on the MTS *las command.
Mike
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Follow these instructions, you should
up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I was impressed that I could be up
and running with MTS in a few
minutes, so followed the above.
The download of d6.0A.zip from
google drive was quite confusing.
Instead of downloading, it kept
on displaying the files within the
archive. I eventually clicked on
the right thing to do a download.
Unzipping that had lots of strange
files, like some MAC stuff ...
C:\mts\d6.0A>dir \mts2
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195
Directory of C:\mts2
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> .
2015-12-09 19:21 <DIR> ..
2012-01-19 09:03 <DIR> __MACOSX
0 File(s) 0 bytes
3 Dir(s) 49,391,509,504 bytes free
C:\mts\d6.0A>
I ignored that.
2012-01-19 09:02 6,148 .DS_Store
Downloading the tape file d6.0.tar.gz
was very slow, and took more than a
few minutes just on its own.
C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0>dir *.aws
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is DE22-8195
Directory of C:\mts\d6.0A\Tapes\xxx\mts\d6.0
2004-12-01 17:29 82 ._d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 82 ._d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 82 ._d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 82 ._d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 82 ._d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 82 ._d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 82 ._d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 82 ._d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 82 ._d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 82 ._d6.0util.aws
2004-12-01 17:29 104,297,638 d6.0dr1.aws
2004-12-01 17:31 104,892,360 d6.0dr2.aws
2004-12-01 17:33 101,143,132 d6.0dr3.aws
2004-12-01 17:00 105,919,089 d6.0t1.aws
2004-12-01 17:03 113,920,131 d6.0t2.aws
2004-12-01 17:05 94,988,288 d6.0t3.aws
2004-12-01 17:10 117,708,295 d6.0t4.aws
2004-12-01 17:14 100,549,823 d6.0t5.aws
2004-12-01 17:18 114,755,897 d6.0t6.aws
2004-12-01 16:56 5,901,190 d6.0util.aws
20 File(s) 964,076,663 bytes
0 Dir(s) 50,522,161,152 bytes free
So instead of copying *.aws as per
documentation, I copied d*.aws instead.
Then my directories contained what
was shown in the documentation.
I started Hercules (I use Hercules/380
3.07 v4.0 for the tape enhancements -
there was no indication I couldn't use
this "older" version so long as I didn't change
the printer definitions, although I
probably do need to start the printer
eventually as I do all my work
remotely via card/tape/printer) and
HHCCF051E Codepage conversion table 819/037 is not defined
CODEPAGE 819/1047
So that square brackets etc will be
transferred correctly for my C programs.
The instructions said to press PA2,
but I didn't know how to do that
with c3270. I eventually found that
I needed to press escape then
type in the words "PA 2" and
hit enter. Seemed to work.
I got to this bit where it said to start
a second 3270 terminal. I did that,
and it seemed fine, but this
"MTS *LAS"
did not "activate" the terminal to the
point where I could see "MTS" in
big letters.
I was going to post some of the
hercules log, but I found out that
there was no log created by
default.
So anyway, that was probably less
than an hour, but a failure.
Just a "newbie experience" I
thought I would document for
the record. :-)
BFN. Paul.
DT EXQ PRT PCH BP AB BPH AL VP RP DPA PA DA CA % PI Q TQ
20.00 0 0 0 3 0 0 2 1540 2373 0 0 0 0 99.68 0 0
*...*-Held Ex-Held
MTS *LAS
00018 MTS *CMD: The CMDSTAT pickup program has been started.
00004 MTS THE ACCOUNTING FILE IS AVAILABLE
00004 MTS 3 RECORDS
00008 MTS 0*** Post-IPL system successfully loaded.
00020 MTS *NAL1 complete
00022 MTS *NAL3 complete
00026 MTS *NAL7 complete
00024 MTS *NAL5 complete
00023 MTS *NAL4 complete
00021 MTS *NAL2 complete
00025 MTS *NAL6 complete
00019 MTS *NAL -> nalmap(10000) has changed. Component: SEG2:RMGRLOAD
00019 MTS *NAL -> (this message is just FYI, it is not an error).
00019 MTS This is not an error.
00019 MTS *NAL complete
00019 MTS PEEK initialization begins
00019 MTS PEEK initialization complete
I had only one minor problem getting it up and running, and that was
because I moved the location of the shadow file, from where the config
file was expecting it.
After that it was "smooth sailing"
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds
like
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
it might be more trouble than it's worth.
Which "comments" ?
Follow these instructions, you should up and running in not more than
a few minutes.
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/ http://try-mts.com/up-and-running-1-installation/
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I have not installed it. I have considered trying to install it, since
I
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
just got a new system put together to run Hercules, and I happened to
run
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
across this discussion. I was hoping that the process was going to be
relatively simple, but from the number of comments I've seen, it sounds
like
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
it might be more trouble than it's worth. I have been a systems
programmer
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
before, but not on MTS; I was only an end user of it. The reason I have
been butting in on this conversation is because I used MTS in the past.
I
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
don't claim to be an expert on it.
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 11:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Are you a member of H390-MTS ?
Yes, but thanks to this neo crap, it
doesn't appear in my top 10, so I
don't see messages there unless
I explicitly click on "all my groups".
The old system was much better.
Why don't you just interact from your email client ?

The only time I login to that dreadful interface is to get to the file section.

Mike
'Dave G4UGM' dave.g4ugm@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 11:59:53 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 09 December 2015 10:39
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Re: MTS Community
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Are you a member of H390-MTS ?
Yes, but thanks to this neo crap, it
doesn't appear in my top 10, so I
don't see messages there unless
I explicitly click on "all my groups".
The old system was much better.
If you have space you can move it to the top 10....

I don't think there are any non-3270 lines defined in the standard MTS config which means it is not easy to automate jobs from outside MTS.

Dave
G4UGM
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 12:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
If you have space you can move it to the top 10....
I have no space at all. Considering that
I am the owner/moderator of:

pdos
hercules-os380
musicspdemo
hercules-politics

and

C-IBM-mainframe (which I didn't put in
my top 10)

I don't have much room for anything else.

Regardless, the extra 6 that made the cut are:

H390-MVS
H390-VM
hercules-390
H390-DOSVS
turnkey-mvs
hercules-s370asm

Which one of those do you want me to give up?
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I don't think there are any non-3270
lines defined in the standard MTS
config which means it is not easy
to automate jobs from outside MTS.
Well I tried entering commands via
the Hercules integrated console,
and to some extent it works. ie I
can type in "/yes" and get a
response.

But other commands don't seem
to be accepted. Also I don't know
if Hercules can generate a PA2
in the integrated console.

BFN. Paul.
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 09 December 2015 10:39
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Re: MTS Community
Post by Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Are you a member of H390-MTS ?
Yes, but thanks to this neo crap, it
doesn't appear in my top 10, so I
don't see messages there unless
I explicitly click on "all my groups".
The old system was much better.
If you have space you can move it to the top 10....

I don't think there are any non-3270 lines defined in the standard MTS config which means it is not easy to automate jobs from outside MTS.

Dave
G4UGM
'Dave G4UGM' dave.g4ugm@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 12:19:24 UTC
Permalink
I think if you move this to the H390-MTS group you will get better answers. You can run jobs from the integrated console it is just a bit odd as its not running the normal MTS command interpreter. I seem to remember when I last used MTS on "real Iron" it did actually run "normal" MTS but that was 40 years ago. You might also want to consider just submitting card decks and running batch jobs. The nice thing with MTS batch is it’s the same as an MTS terminal.

Dave
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 09 December 2015 12:14
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Re: MTS Community
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
If you have space you can move it to the top 10....
pdos
hercules-os380
musicspdemo
hercules-politics
and
C-IBM-mainframe (which I didn't put in
my top 10)
I don't have much room for anything else.
H390-MVS
H390-VM
hercules-390
H390-DOSVS
turnkey-mvs
hercules-s370asm
Which one of those do you want me to give up?
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I don't think there are any non-3270
lines defined in the standard MTS
config which means it is not easy
to automate jobs from outside MTS.
Well I tried entering commands via
the Hercules integrated console,
and to some extent it works. ie I
can type in "/yes" and get a
response.
But other commands don't seem
to be accepted. Also I don't know
if Hercules can generate a PA2
in the integrated console.
BFN. Paul.
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Re: MTS Community > > > Are you a member
of H390-MTS ?
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Yes, but thanks to this neo crap, it
doesn't appear in my top 10, so I
don't see messages there unless
I explicitly click on "all my groups".
The old system was much better.
If you have space you can move it to the top 10....
I don't think there are any non-3270 lines defined in the standard MTS config
which means it is not easy to automate jobs from outside MTS.
Dave
G4UGM
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 12:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
You might also want to consider just
submitting card decks and running
batch jobs.
Yes, that's exactly what I wanted
to do. Send everything up via
either card reader and tape, and
down via printer and tape.

Let me make a post in H390-MTS now.

BFN. Paul.




---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

I think if you move this to the H390-MTS group you will get better answers. You can run jobs from the integrated console it is just a bit odd as its not running the normal MTS command interpreter. I seem to remember when I last used MTS on "real Iron" it did actually run "normal" MTS but that was 40 years ago. You might also want to consider just submitting card decks and running batch jobs. The nice thing with MTS batch is it’s the same as an MTS terminal.

Dave
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 09 December 2015 12:14
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Re: MTS Community
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
If you have space you can move it to the top 10....
pdos
hercules-os380
musicspdemo
hercules-politics
and
C-IBM-mainframe (which I didn't put in
my top 10)
I don't have much room for anything else.
H390-MVS
H390-VM
hercules-390
H390-DOSVS
turnkey-mvs
hercules-s370asm
Which one of those do you want me to give up?
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I don't think there are any non-3270
lines defined in the standard MTS
config which means it is not easy
to automate jobs from outside MTS.
Well I tried entering commands via
the Hercules integrated console,
and to some extent it works. ie I
can type in "/yes" and get a
response.
But other commands don't seem
to be accepted. Also I don't know
if Hercules can generate a PA2
in the integrated console.
BFN. Paul.
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Re: MTS Community > > > Are you a member
of H390-MTS ?
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
Yes, but thanks to this neo crap, it
doesn't appear in my top 10, so I
don't see messages there unless
I explicitly click on "all my groups".
The old system was much better.
If you have space you can move it to the top 10....
I don't think there are any non-3270 lines defined in the standard MTS config
which means it is not easy to automate jobs from outside MTS.
Dave
G4UGM
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.hercules-390.org http://www.hercules-390.org
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
Gavin Eadie gavin@umich.edu [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 16:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Dave G4UGM' ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
I think if you move this to the H390-MTS group you will get better answers.
.. because some MTS people are not members of the hercules-390 list, you may get no answers unless you ask on H390-MTS !!
Kevin Monceaux Kevin@RawFedDogs.net [hercules-390]
2015-12-09 18:30:50 UTC
Permalink
The instructions said to press PA2, but I didn't know how to do that with
c3270. I eventually found that I needed to press escape then type in the
words "PA 2" and hit enter. Seemed to work.
Or you can hit <ctrl>a 2 for PA2 in c3270.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Harold Grovesteen h.grovsteen@tx.rr.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 15:46:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gavin Eadie ***@umich.edu [hercules-390]
The MTS professionals seem to keep everything to themselves.
.. This remark is outright wrong and insulting.
Give me one example of withheld information.
And, there are no “MTS professionals” any more .. just some guys ..
.. did I just jump to the bait?
No, I would not say you jumped to the bait because it wasn't bait. It
certainly was not intended as insulting, although I can see how the
words could have been taken that way. Please, accept my apologies.
Certainly, my expansion is just my opinion. Freely take it or leave it.
Its intentions are in the way of encouragement.

Perhaps I should have used different wording. "They keep everything
that is going on to themselves." may better express my thoughts. For an
MTS community to emerge beyond those directly involved with its
maintenance requires MTS to be treated as an open source project, a
project led by "just some guys."

Successful open source efforts engage with others. The external
appearance is that the MTS "group/ex-professionals" does its own thing.
It does not interact with the rest of the Hercules community. I am not
even sure they (you) see themselves (yourselves) as part of the Hercules
community. But, that is where legacy mainframe software lives. It is
not about just pushing information to a web site or responding when
someone posts on the MTS list. The project needs to demonstrate signs
of life. Yes, some of that life is on the MTS mailing list. Just as is
the case for MVS, VM, etc. But I only see emails triggered by a few new
users. When kicked, someone knowledgeable about MTS responds. But I
don't see postings their at all by those involved in communicating with
each other. However such communication occurs, it isn't visible to
others. That hides any real activity, signs of project life.

A wealth of information from the current messages was shared with the
rest of the Hercules community. That is a good thing. How are you
going to capitalize on the advances? "If we build it, they will come."
doesn't work. Visible interactions with others become a form of
"advertising". And, by involving others with different view points,
sometimes interesting results occur. Bringing in some "new blood"
doesn't hurt either.

If you want MTS to "live on" beyond taking up space in the "cloud",
"some guys" need to step out of their home offices. That is all I am
suggesting. The life of the thing to which many of you have dedicated
years/decades of your own lives is in your hands.

Harold Grovesteen
Kevin Monceaux Kevin@RawFedDogs.net [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 17:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harold Grovesteen ***@tx.rr.com [hercules-390]
Perhaps I should have used different wording. "They keep everything
that is going on to themselves." may better express my thoughts.
For example, in at least two or three recent MTS posts I've asked if anyone
knows the status of the 1996 MTS system that has yet to be released. I
haven't received a response.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Gavin Eadie gavin@umich.edu [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 18:52:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Monceaux ***@RawFedDogs.net [hercules-390]
Post by Harold Grovesteen ***@tx.rr.com [hercules-390]
Perhaps I should have used different wording. "They keep everything
that is going on to themselves." may better express my thoughts.
For example, in at least two or three recent MTS posts I've asked if anyone
knows the status of the 1996 MTS system that has yet to be released. I
haven't received a response.
.. we should have not let that go unanswered.

The answer is, “Nobody is actively working on it just now.” It’s not an answer we like either.

So, in a way, we’re keeping “nothing” to ourselves :)
Kevin Monceaux Kevin@RawFedDogs.net [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 19:41:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gavin Eadie ***@umich.edu [hercules-390]
The answer is, “Nobody is actively working on it just now.” It’s not an
answer we like either.
Is there anything Hercules users outside of the "group of guys that has
access to the 1996 system" can do to help? Is there any part(s) of the 1996
MTS system that could be released now? Would it be feasible to release a
minimal IPLable MTS system based on the 1996 system without the pieces that
aren't ready for release yet?
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Gavin Eadie gavin@umich.edu [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 20:14:30 UTC
Permalink
May I politely and respectfully ask that these MTS-specific threads of messages move to H390-MTS?
There may be 'MTS people' who aren’t members of the H-390 list ..
Post by Kevin Monceaux ***@RawFedDogs.net [hercules-390]
Post by Gavin Eadie ***@umich.edu [hercules-390]
The answer is, “Nobody is actively working on it just now.” It’s not an
answer we like either.
Is there anything Hercules users outside of the "group of guys that has
access to the 1996 system" can do to help? Is there any part(s) of the 1996
MTS system that could be released now? Would it be feasible to release a
minimal IPLable MTS system based on the 1996 system without the pieces that
aren't ready for release yet?
.. generous offer and appreciated. One difficulty is that the “1996 system” is a snapshot of the file system as it was on a particular day so it contains all manner of personal files, even if limited to only staff and system accounts. While I’m sure the information is mostly too old to matter, some of it should remain private (bank account numbers, inflammatory letters I didn’t send, email archives, etc).

We’ve not discussed this ourselves for quite a long time, my buddies may have more cheerful answers ..
'Thomas Valerio' tjv@westwood-tech.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 22:35:18 UTC
Permalink
I'm not sure but I don't think that all of the principle member of the MTS
group all have access to all of the material that I archived when the
university announced the shutdown of MTS. I will see if I can make the
time to build a single 3390-3 test pack system of the 1996 release in
January or February.
"They keep everything that is going on to themselves." may better
express > my thoughts.

I have to agree with Gavin here, when "everything that is going on" is
essentially "nothing", I am not sure what you would like us to "share"
except a periodic "nothing new to report."

Thomas Valerio
On Sun, Dec 06, 2015 at 09:46:58AM -0600, Harold Grovesteen
Post by Harold Grovesteen ***@tx.rr.com [hercules-390]
Perhaps I should have used different wording. "They keep everything
that is going on to themselves." may better express my thoughts.
For example, in at least two or three recent MTS posts I've asked if anyone
knows the status of the 1996 MTS system that has yet to be released. I
haven't received a response.
.. we should have not let that go unanswered.
The answer is, “Nobody is actively working on it just now.” It’s
not an answer we like either.
So, in a way, we’re keeping “nothing” to ourselves :)
Gavin Eadie gavin@umich.edu [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 18:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harold Grovesteen ***@tx.rr.com [hercules-390]
No, I would not say you jumped to the bait because it wasn't bait. It
certainly was not intended as insulting, although I can see how the
words could have been taken that way. Please, accept my apologies.
Certainly, my expansion is just my opinion. Freely take it or leave it.
Its intentions are in the way of encouragement.
.. fair enough, I probably over reacted so, apologies from me too.

I can respond to some of the suggestions in your latest message only personally, there is no MTS “group think” or “official position,” but I think any differences of opinion are really more like differences of viewpoint. For example, I don’t view MTS as a open source project .. if it were, it would be bigger than Linux! I agree that the success of an open source project is related to engagement .. our engagement to date has been with libraries and museums, to try and ensure MTS lives longer than we do. We would have done that even if Hercules didn’t exist.
René Ferland ferland.rene@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2015-12-06 03:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
I remember just enough of MTS to *probably* use it again on Hercules, IF the thing were preconfigured.
Isn't it already preconfigured? What do you mean exactly?
Post by ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
But if I needed to change anything else and had to assemble a "SYSGEN" of MTS, I could see where there could be problems.
Can you be more specific, what would you need to change?
Post by ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
If there really are [...] help improve the documentation, or put together an installation guide, or *something* to help out the newbies. 
The site try-mts.com gives everything a newbie needs to install MTS and have it running. The standard documentation of MTS is freely downloadable, including more technical manuals (accounting, HASP operation guide, Operator manual, disk file system "internals"). What the recent posts showed me is not that we need more documentation, but we need more people actually reading the existing documentation.

Yours truly,

Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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