Discussion:
Feedback
(too old to reply)
George
2003-08-19 15:50:15 UTC
Permalink
OK everybody. Yesterday I posted a notice about the revamping of my web
site HTTP://home.cfl.rr.com/vmwkshop . I have seen a modest amount of
activity on the server, and no responses.

For those of you that have looked at the changes, I have some questions:

1. Am I going in the right direction?
2. Is it truly an "improvement" over the previous version?

I know that there is not very much loaded on the new version. Before I
start the massive task of loading all of the materials I have found into
the files galleries, I need answers to the above questions.

I am truly interested in any feedback. Good, bad or indifferent.

Your comments are most welcome.

George Shedlock


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Gregg C Levine
2003-08-19 22:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Hello from Gregg C Levine
About your website.... How does none of the above sound? Try, perfect.
Even exactly what we need. I'll even not complain about the presence
of your question, on all of "my" groups because of this.

Now about the VM/370r6 stuff. What about making the documentation
downloadable as an easily viewable form? Your choice, but PDF, and
HTML come to mind, the docbook tools, while annoying do work. Same
holds for the DOS/VS things.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon-XfrvlLN1Pqtfpb/***@public.gmane.org
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 11:50 AM
To: herc390; hercdos; hercmvs; hercvm
Subject: [hercules-390] Feedback
OK everybody. Yesterday I posted a notice about the revamping of my web
site HTTP://home.cfl.rr.com/vmwkshop . I have seen a modest amount of
activity on the server, and no responses.
For those of you that have looked at the changes, I have some
1. Am I going in the right direction?
2. Is it truly an "improvement" over the previous version?
I know that there is not very much loaded on the new version. Before I
start the massive task of loading all of the materials I have found into
the files galleries, I need answers to the above questions.
I am truly interested in any feedback. Good, bad or indifferent.
Your comments are most welcome.
George Shedlock
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George
2003-08-19 23:26:31 UTC
Permalink
Gregg,

Your comments are much appreciated.

Gregg C Levine wrote:
<snip>
Post by Gregg C Levine
Now about the VM/370r6 stuff. What about making the documentation
downloadable as an easily viewable form? Your choice, but PDF, and
HTML come to mind, the docbook tools, while annoying do work. Same
holds for the DOS/VS things.
-------------------
<snip>

Since I see that you took the time to register a userid on my site, I
will tell you how you can help yourself and all of us.

If you simply connect to the site, the file galleries are in
read/download mode only. Once you login, another option appears on your
menu. That's right, you can also upload files to the various file
galleries.

I would suggest the following guidelines when uploading files:

1. When uploading large files ( >30MB) let me know with a private e-mail
( mailto:workshop-3tLf1voIkJTQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org ). Currently I only have about 1GB free
space. I will be upgrading the PC it is on (If I get a job or someone
cares to donate a disk drive greater than 20GB). Currently I am working
on optimizing the code to run on the lowly 233 MHz PC it is on. (the
main problem is I only have 48 MB of RAM). Try running Win 2K, MYSQL,
Apache, PHP, etc. on that system and you can appreciate some of the
sluggishness.

2. For file naming I would like to see the last node of the filename to
be PDF, TXT, ZIP or any of the standard browser recognized file types.
To accommodate the distinction of types of files (JCL, source code,
etc.) I would suggest something like something.jcl.txt . This will make
it searchable (full text) (if I can get it to work on content also), and
allow it to be viewed without downloading and then viewing.

As time permits I will be moving the content of my old site to the new
file galleries. This means all of the files in the VM Workshop Archives
will be broken out into separate files with appropriate names and
descriptions.

All registered users are invited to upload relevant files to any of the
file galleries.

George Shedlock


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jpschuknecht
2003-08-19 23:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gregg,

I don't know what George is going to do with his VM file downloads,
but most of the DOS/VS stuff is either card image material with
a .xxx suffix to denote usage (DOS is MUCH MORE segregated by
function than VM or MVS) or is in PDF format (for manuals, text,
etc).

I personally hope he doesn't change the card images to anything else
(an admittedly minority viewpoint). Notepad (on winddoze machines)
handles them beautifully as-is.

James Schuknecht




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George
2003-08-19 23:39:57 UTC
Permalink
James,

See my recent reply to Gregg. See if that convention satisfies your
requirement.

The VM files will be loaded on the new site as time permits (unless
someone cares to assist in this effort ;) ;) ).

George
Post by jpschuknecht
Hi Gregg,
I don't know what George is going to do with his VM file downloads,
but most of the DOS/VS stuff is either card image material with
a .xxx suffix to denote usage (DOS is MUCH MORE segregated by
function than VM or MVS) or is in PDF format (for manuals, text,
etc).
I personally hope he doesn't change the card images to anything else
(an admittedly minority viewpoint). Notepad (on winddoze machines)
handles them beautifully as-is.
James Schuknecht
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Gregg C Levine
2003-08-20 00:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Nice to be well remembered, and well thought of. However, regarding
the VM/370r6 items a question did surface. Where did you find the tape
that says it’s the base-source file? And ends in .aws.bz2, for
openers. That brings up the next question. Regarding the starter pack
tape, have you been able to restore it to the proper disk pack? And do
you complete notes on your site for using both?

George what I am getting at, is that we need comprehensive
documentation for all of our operating systems. Granted there's a
group dedicated to that subject, and if you want to continue to
discuss things, there, go right and continue things there, I'll be
happy to agree to your joining it, if you have not done so. Your site
is a strong leader in that direction, as it happens.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon-XfrvlLN1Pqtfpb/***@public.gmane.org
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Re: Feedback
James,
See my recent reply to Gregg. See if that convention satisfies your
requirement.
The VM files will be loaded on the new site as time permits (unless
someone cares to assist in this effort ;) ;) ).
George
Post by jpschuknecht
Hi Gregg,
I don't know what George is going to do with his VM file
downloads,
Post by jpschuknecht
but most of the DOS/VS stuff is either card image material with
a .xxx suffix to denote usage (DOS is MUCH MORE segregated by
function than VM or MVS) or is in PDF format (for manuals, text,
etc).
I personally hope he doesn't change the card images to anything else
(an admittedly minority viewpoint). Notepad (on winddoze
machines)
Post by jpschuknecht
handles them beautifully as-is.
James Schuknecht
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It was copied from their version of a newspaper.


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George
2003-08-20 02:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Gregg,

Slow down, just a bit. This is not the correct forum to discuss the
VM/370 stuff. Please let's take it there. This is bring cross posted to
that group as well (h390-vm).
Post by Gregg C Levine
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Nice to be well remembered, and well thought of. However, regarding
the VM/370r6 items a question did surface. Where did you find the tape
that says it’s the base-source file? And ends in .aws.bz2, for
I can honestly say that I do not remember where I got it from. My
primary interest was and is to gather as many of the old operating
systems stuff (VM/370, DOS/VS, etc) and to make it available for others.
IIRC, the file had the bz2 extension on it when I got it. I have
confirmed that it is a valid bz2 archive and I can read it with the
AWSBROWSE utility. The data even looks like a valid tape in VMFPLC2
format. As near as I can tell the contents are: CP COPY/MACRO library,
CP Source library, CMS COPY/MACRO library, CMS Source library, IPCS
COPY/MACRO library, IPCS Source library, RSCS COPY/MACRO library and
RSCS Source library.
Post by Gregg C Levine
openers. That brings up the next question. Regarding the starter pack
tape, have you been able to restore it to the proper disk pack? And do
you complete notes on your site for using both?
I personally have not processed the starter tape. See my comment above
re the source tape.
Post by Gregg C Levine
George what I am getting at, is that we need comprehensive
documentation for all of our operating systems. Granted there's a
group dedicated to that subject, and if you want to continue to
discuss things, there, go right and continue things there, I'll be
happy to agree to your joining it, if you have not done so. Your site
is a strong leader in that direction, as it happens.
-------------------
George


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John Summerfield
2003-08-20 03:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
Gregg,
Slow down, just a bit. This is not the correct forum to discuss the
VM/370 stuff. Please let's take it there. This is bring cross posted to
that group as well (h390-vm).
I think there are too many discussion fora relevant to Hercules; I'd
prefer to keep DOS, MVS, VM all here where it's easier to find the
discussions.

I'd not think a list called "H390-vm" which, its name suggests, deals
with commercial software is especially relevant to free versions of VM.

My own interest in DOS & VM isn't high enough for me to seek out and
join those lists, but sometimes, because of discussion here, I think I
just might give one or the other a try.
--
Cheers
John.

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George
2003-08-20 04:09:38 UTC
Permalink
John,

The list I referred to H390-VM is a list that deals exclusively with
VM/370 under Hercules and as such is very relevant. There are also other
lists h390-dos for DOS/VSE Release 34 under Herc, h390-mvs for MVS 3.8J
(and I guess OS/360 21.8) under Herc and of course hercules-390 intended
to discuss the architecture and other Hercules proper issues.

George
Post by John Summerfield
Post by George
Gregg,
Slow down, just a bit. This is not the correct forum to discuss the
VM/370 stuff. Please let's take it there. This is bring cross posted
to
Post by George
that group as well (h390-vm).
I think there are too many discussion fora relevant to Hercules; I'd
prefer to keep DOS, MVS, VM all here where it's easier to find the
discussions.
I'd not think a list called "H390-vm" which, its name suggests, deals
with commercial software is especially relevant to free versions of VM.
My own interest in DOS & VM isn't high enough for me to seek out and
join those lists, but sometimes, because of discussion here, I think I
just might give one or the other a try.
--
Cheers
John.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb
Copyright John Summerfield. Reproduction prohibited.
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Jay Maynard
2003-08-20 09:23:45 UTC
Permalink
h390-mvs for MVS 3.8J (and I guess OS/360 21.8) under Herc
Actually, a better place for OS/360 discussions is hercules-os360.

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cube1us
2003-08-21 01:05:32 UTC
Permalink
It might be -- if it actually existed... ;^)

(also, if it did exist, h390-os360 might be a better name).

[At least the Yahoo group search didn't find either one].
Post by Jay Maynard
h390-mvs for MVS 3.8J (and I guess OS/360 21.8) under Herc
Actually, a better place for OS/360 discussions is hercules-os360.
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Jay Maynard
2003-08-21 01:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by cube1us
Post by Jay Maynard
h390-mvs for MVS 3.8J (and I guess OS/360 21.8) under Herc
Actually, a better place for OS/360 discussions is hercules-os360.
It might be -- if it actually existed... ;^)
It does indeed exist. It's got 65 members, and not a lot of traffic.
Post by cube1us
(also, if it did exist, h390-os360 might be a better name).
Yeah, well...too late now.
Post by cube1us
[At least the Yahoo group search didn't find either one].
It's not in the directory, as an attempt to keep down the spammers.

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cube1us
2003-08-21 02:00:37 UTC
Permalink
OK. I'll bite. How does one join it then?

Jay Jaeger
Post by Jay Maynard
Post by cube1us
[At least the Yahoo group search didn't find either one].
It's not in the directory, as an attempt to keep down the spammers.
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somitcw
2003-08-21 02:12:00 UTC
Permalink
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-os360
Post by cube1us
OK. I'll bite. How does one join it then?
Jay Jaeger
Post by Jay Maynard
Post by cube1us
[At least the Yahoo group search didn't find either one].
It's not in the directory, as an attempt to keep down
the spammers.
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cube1us
2003-08-20 01:49:56 UTC
Permalink
Please lose the links to the manuals that are not there.... Every
time I go to the site, I think "oh boy -- the manuals are there",
but, of course, they aren't. At least remove the link if you want to
leave the name and number.

Jay Jaeger
Post by George
OK everybody. Yesterday I posted a notice about the revamping of my web
site HTTP://home.cfl.rr.com/vmwkshop . I have seen a modest amount of
activity on the server, and no responses.
For those of you that have looked at the changes, I have some
1. Am I going in the right direction?
2. Is it truly an "improvement" over the previous version?
I know that there is not very much loaded on the new version.
Before I
Post by George
start the massive task of loading all of the materials I have found into
the files galleries, I need answers to the above questions.
I am truly interested in any feedback. Good, bad or indifferent.
Your comments are most welcome.
George Shedlock
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George
2003-08-20 02:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Jay,

I should probably remove the links to manuals I have not scanned as yet.
All of the manuals listed, however, are sitting on a shelf in my office
at home. If you need any info from them in the meantime, let me know. I
can look it up and get back to you.

George
Post by cube1us
Please lose the links to the manuals that are not there.... Every
time I go to the site, I think "oh boy -- the manuals are there",
but, of course, they aren't. At least remove the link if you want to
leave the name and number.
Jay Jaeger
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David Wade
2003-08-20 07:46:54 UTC
Permalink
George,

Well I hate to get picky but most of the VM370 R6 stuff is just a copy of
the stuff in the VM/370 Yahoo Group. The documentation is just as wrong as
the documents there. So the CP Commands includes PER but PER is a VM/SP
command, the FILEDEF commands include the label processing options which are
not in VM/370...

Also I don't think any one should be starting with the RAW VM system. The
4-Pack system that can be had from http://www.boglob.co.uk/vmdist.html is a
much better place to start. It has a lot of work done and is much easier to
start with.

And why port 8181. The firewall where I work blocks all ports other than 80,
so I have to wait till I am home to see it....

One positive note though, it is really nice to have the VM Workshop Tape
Archives all in one place. This is really useful, especially as some of the
traditional university homes of this stuff are vanishing ...

And before you flame, you did ask for honest comments,


Dave.
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:39:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Feedback
James,
See my recent reply to Gregg. See if that convention satisfies your
requirement.
The VM files will be loaded on the new site as time permits (unless
someone cares to assist in this effort ;) ;) ).
George
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George
2003-08-20 10:52:05 UTC
Permalink
David,

I asked for your comments, good or bad, and that is what I received. I
asked for them because I want to improve things for the community at
large.

I agree that most of the vm370r6 stuff is copied from the yahoo groups
file archives. There is also more than that (as evidenced by the
discussion of the original distribution tapes).

I have not gone thru each acquisition with a fine tooth comb, only what
was reported on the site from which I obtained it. The corrections and
expansion to the CP commands reference and all the rest of the
documentation provided needs to be reviewed, corrected and organized. I
am at the step where I have done the gathering, the rest needs to be
completed.

I agree that any new user of VM/370 should not be starting from the raw
tapes. There are there for completeness. My new site will contain the
4-pack starter system as well. Should be later today.

As for port 8181. There was a problem with Roadrunner (my ISP) that they
were blocking port 80. I agree that it is a PITA. I will test again
whether port 80 is available.

The VM workshop archive: This is currently a combined effort from the
IBM VM download library (somewhat dated though) and some of the VM
workshop tapes. I have more tapes that I have not loaded (the early
years) but will do so as time permits.

I have several items up on my agenda for the time permits problem.
Perhaps the group can help prioritize for the greater good.

In no particular order:

1. Complete the loading of my new web site.
2. Investigate the port 8181 problem.
3. Review correct and organize the stuff being offered.
4. Load the early VM workshop tapes.
5. See what can be done about the javascript problem (the fact that it
is there and may not be available to everyone)
6. Build a DOS/VS Release 34 system similar to the VM 4-pack system.
7. Scan the rest of the DOS/VS Release 34 manuals and post them.

Anything else I have forgotten?

George
Post by David Wade
George,
Well I hate to get picky but most of the VM370 R6 stuff is just a copy of
the stuff in the VM/370 Yahoo Group. The documentation is just as wrong as
the documents there. So the CP Commands includes PER but PER is a VM/SP
command, the FILEDEF commands include the label processing options which are
not in VM/370...
Also I don't think any one should be starting with the RAW VM system. The
4-Pack system that can be had from http://www.boglob.co.uk/vmdist.html is a
much better place to start. It has a lot of work done and is much easier to
start with.
And why port 8181. The firewall where I work blocks all ports other than 80,
so I have to wait till I am home to see it....
One positive note though, it is really nice to have the VM Workshop Tape
Archives all in one place. This is really useful, especially as some of the
traditional university homes of this stuff are vanishing ...
And before you flame, you did ask for honest comments,
Dave.
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:39:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Feedback
James,
See my recent reply to Gregg. See if that convention satisfies your
requirement.
The VM files will be loaded on the new site as time permits (unless
someone cares to assist in this effort ;) ;) ).
George
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John Summerfield
2003-08-20 15:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
2. Investigate the port 8181 problem.
Did you look at free hosting sites? In a few seconds I found a couple
that offer 999 Mbytes at ~/you.

Dyndns can remap that to www.yourdomain.org
--
Cheers
John.

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Gregg C Levine
2003-08-20 19:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Hello from Gregg C Levine
David, one of the reasons, why I work with the "raw" kit, is that it
is the one that the folks on the VM/ESA list, are familiar with.
Further, have you looked at the files George has? One of them is the
one that we've been looking for, since the kit surfaced. Therefore,
your right, but only from a certain point of view.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon-XfrvlLN1Pqtfpb/***@public.gmane.org
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
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(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 3:47 AM
Subject: [hercules-390] RE: Re: Feedback
George,
Well I hate to get picky but most of the VM370 R6 stuff is just a copy of
the stuff in the VM/370 Yahoo Group. The documentation is just as wrong as
the documents there. So the CP Commands includes PER but PER is a VM/SP
command, the FILEDEF commands include the label processing options which are
not in VM/370...
Also I don't think any one should be starting with the RAW VM
system. The
4-Pack system that can be had from
http://www.boglob.co.uk/vmdist.html is a
much better place to start. It has a lot of work done and is much easier to
start with.
And why port 8181. The firewall where I work blocks all ports other than 80,
so I have to wait till I am home to see it....
One positive note though, it is really nice to have the VM Workshop Tape
Archives all in one place. This is really useful, especially as some of the
traditional university homes of this stuff are vanishing ...
And before you flame, you did ask for honest comments,
Dave.
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:39:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Feedback
James,
See my recent reply to Gregg. See if that convention satisfies your
requirement.
The VM files will be loaded on the new site as time permits
(unless
someone cares to assist in this effort ;) ;) ).
George
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George
2003-08-28 02:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Dave,

This is for Dave and anyone else who had /has a problem with the PORT
number for my web site. It has now been changed to the standard port 80.
Let me know if there are any problems in accessing this site.

Thank you.

George Shedlock
Post by David Wade
George,
<snip>
Post by David Wade
And why port 8181. The firewall where I work blocks all ports other than 80,
so I have to wait till I am home to see it....
<snip>
Post by David Wade
Dave.
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:39:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Feedback
James,
See my recent reply to Gregg. See if that convention satisfies your
requirement.
The VM files will be loaded on the new site as time permits (unless
someone cares to assist in this effort ;) ;) ).
George
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