Discussion:
Windows shutdown
(too old to reply)
Michael Brice mikebrice1948@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 06:55:32 UTC
Permalink
Hello group,

I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows GUI
component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system being
emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and one
active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:

Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown event
If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image

I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
termination option available.

Thanks for any advice/clarification

Regards
Mike Brice
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 07:00:44 UTC
Permalink
> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image

Until if / the guru's correct me, I'm gonna say NONE.

Hercules emulates hardware, it has no idea what OS is running on it.

Mike

On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Hello group,
>
> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows GUI
> component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
> V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system being
> emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and one
> active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
> initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:
>
> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown event
> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>
> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
> termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
> termination option available.
>
> Thanks for any advice/clarification
>
> Regards
> Mike Brice
>
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 07:01:27 UTC
Permalink
I.e. z/os will get whatever it would get on real iron if the power was
suddenly shut off.

On 2/2/16, Mike Stramba <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>
> Until if / the guru's correct me, I'm gonna say NONE.
>
> Hercules emulates hardware, it has no idea what OS is running on it.
>
> Mike
>
> On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> Hello group,
>>
>> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows GUI
>> component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
>> V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system being
>> emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and one
>> active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
>> initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:
>>
>> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown event
>> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>>
>> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
>> termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
>> termination option available.
>>
>> Thanks for any advice/clarification
>>
>> Regards
>> Mike Brice
>>
>
Michael Brice mikebrice1948@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 07:32:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the quick response. I understand but have a problem. This
morning my z/OS fails at ipl time as it appears it can not read the ipl
files on the sysres volume. I get a csw status of 0C40. I have a sinking
feeling that my world has just gone belly up as a result of the shutdown
last night. Windows buffers I/O I fear and not everything may have been
written. Any thoughts ?

Regards
Mike Brice

On 2 February 2016 at 08:01, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> I.e. z/os will get whatever it would get on real iron if the power was
> suddenly shut off.
>
>
> On 2/2/16, Mike Stramba <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
> >
> > Until if / the guru's correct me, I'm gonna say NONE.
> >
> > Hercules emulates hardware, it has no idea what OS is running on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
> > <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >> Hello group,
> >>
> >> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows GUI
> >> component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
> >> V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system being
> >> emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and one
> >> active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
> >> initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:
> >>
> >> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown event
> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
> >>
> >> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
> >> termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
> >> termination option available.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any advice/clarification
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Mike Brice
> >>
> >
>
>
>
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 07:38:12 UTC
Permalink
I think it is unlikely that your data
would have been trashed. If you
lose power you should lose a
very small amount of data.

I suggest you put your current
disks aside, create a new z/OS
system, then mount your old
drives in a new spot and see if
your data is still intact. I bet it is.

BFN. Paul.




---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the quick response. I understand but have a problem. This morning my z/OS fails at ipl time as it appears it can not read the ipl files on the sysres volume. I get a csw status of 0C40. I have a sinking feeling that my world has just gone belly up as a result of the shutdown last night. Windows buffers I/O I fear and not everything may have been written. Any thoughts ?


Regards
Mike Brice


On 2 February 2016 at 08:01, Mike Stramba ***@... mailto:***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I.e. z/os will get whatever it would get on real iron if the power was
suddenly shut off.


On 2/2/16, Mike Stramba <***@... mailto:***@...> wrote:
>> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>
> Until if / the guru's correct me, I'm gonna say NONE.
>
> Hercules emulates hardware, it has no idea what OS is running on it.
>
> Mike
>
> On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@... mailto:***@... [hercules-390]
> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> Hello group,
>>
>> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows GUI
>> component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
>> V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system being
>> emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and one
>> active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
>> initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:
>>
>> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown event
>> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>>
>> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
>> termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
>> termination option available.
>>
>> Thanks for any advice/clarification
>>
>> Regards
>> Mike Brice
>>
>
Michael Brice mikebrice1948@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 07:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Paul. I will have a cup of tea, relax, and start thinking and
doing as you suggest

Regards
Mike Brice


On 2 February 2016 at 08:38, ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390] <
hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> I think it is unlikely that your data
> would have been trashed. If you
> lose power you should lose a
> very small amount of data.
>
> I suggest you put your current
> disks aside, create a new z/OS
> system, then mount your old
> drives in a new spot and see if
> your data is still intact. I bet it is.
>
> BFN. Paul.
>
> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for the quick response. I understand but have a problem. This
> morning my z/OS fails at ipl time as it appears it can not read the ipl
> files on the sysres volume. I get a csw status of 0C40. I have a sinking
> feeling that my world has just gone belly up as a result of the shutdown
> last night. Windows buffers I/O I fear and not everything may have been
> written. Any thoughts ?
>
>
> Regards
> Mike Brice
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 08:01, Mike Stramba ***@... mailto:
> ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:
> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> I.e. z/os will get whatever it would get on real iron if the power was
> suddenly shut off.
>
>
> On 2/2/16, Mike Stramba <***@... mailto:***@...> wrote:
> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
> >
> > Until if / the guru's correct me, I'm gonna say NONE.
> >
> > Hercules emulates hardware, it has no idea what OS is running on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@... mailto:***@...
> [hercules-390]
> > <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
> wrote:
> >> Hello group,
> >>
> >> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows GUI
> >> component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
> >> V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system being
> >> emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and one
> >> active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
> >> initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:
> >>
> >> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown event
> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
> >>
> >> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
> >> termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
> >> termination option available.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any advice/clarification
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Mike Brice
> >>
> >
>
>
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 08:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Are you using shadow disks ?

If so, make a backup of that directory.

Either way, running cckdcdsk.exe -4 on all of your dasd's might get
them back (has for me).

In future, disable any auto-shutdowns with Hercu /zos running ;)

Mike

On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Thank you Paul. I will have a cup of tea, relax, and start thinking and
> doing as you suggest
>
> Regards
> Mike Brice
>
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 08:38, ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390] <
> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I think it is unlikely that your data
>> would have been trashed. If you
>> lose power you should lose a
>> very small amount of data.
>>
>> I suggest you put your current
>> disks aside, create a new z/OS
>> system, then mount your old
>> drives in a new spot and see if
>> your data is still intact. I bet it is.
>>
>> BFN. Paul.
>>
>> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> Thanks for the quick response. I understand but have a problem. This
>> morning my z/OS fails at ipl time as it appears it can not read the ipl
>> files on the sysres volume. I get a csw status of 0C40. I have a sinking
>> feeling that my world has just gone belly up as a result of the shutdown
>> last night. Windows buffers I/O I fear and not everything may have been
>> written. Any thoughts ?
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Mike Brice
>>
>> On 2 February 2016 at 08:01, Mike Stramba ***@... mailto:
>> ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:
>> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> I.e. z/os will get whatever it would get on real iron if the power was
>> suddenly shut off.
>>
>>
>> On 2/2/16, Mike Stramba <***@... mailto:***@...> wrote:
>> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>> >
>> > Until if / the guru's correct me, I'm gonna say NONE.
>> >
>> > Hercules emulates hardware, it has no idea what OS is running on it.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@... mailto:***@...
>> [hercules-390]
>> > <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> Hello group,
>> >>
>> >> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows
>> >> GUI
>> >> component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
>> >> V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system
>> >> being
>> >> emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and one
>> >> active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
>> >> initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:
>> >>
>> >> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown event
>> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>> >>
>> >> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
>> >> termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
>> >> termination option available.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for any advice/clarification
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Mike Brice
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
Michael Brice mikebrice1948@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 08:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike,

I had tried to run this utility but had a problem

F:\zOS\DASD>cckdcdsk.exe -3 -ro mbr002.a98
HHC01413I Hercules utility cckdcdsk - DASD CCKD image verification; version
4.00.0.8143-gd4a1b5e
HHC01414I (c) Copyright 1999-2013 by Roger Bowler, Jan Jaeger, and others
HHC00354E 0:0000 CCKD file mbr002.a98: error in function open(): Permission
denied

My Windows permissions are OK for the directory containing the CCKD disk
files. I am running Win 10 which I hope should not make a difference.

Mike Brice

On 2 February 2016 at 09:18, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Are you using shadow disks ?
>
> If so, make a backup of that directory.
>
> Either way, running cckdcdsk.exe -4 on all of your dasd's might get
> them back (has for me).
>
> In future, disable any auto-shutdowns with Hercu /zos running ;)
>
> Mike
>
> On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
>
> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > Thank you Paul. I will have a cup of tea, relax, and start thinking and
> > doing as you suggest
> >
> > Regards
> > Mike Brice
> >
> >
> > On 2 February 2016 at 08:38, ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390] <
> > hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I think it is unlikely that your data
> >> would have been trashed. If you
> >> lose power you should lose a
> >> very small amount of data.
> >>
> >> I suggest you put your current
> >> disks aside, create a new z/OS
> >> system, then mount your old
> >> drives in a new spot and see if
> >> your data is still intact. I bet it is.
> >>
> >> BFN. Paul.
> >>
> >> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
> >>
> >> Hi Mike,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the quick response. I understand but have a problem. This
> >> morning my z/OS fails at ipl time as it appears it can not read the ipl
> >> files on the sysres volume. I get a csw status of 0C40. I have a sinking
> >> feeling that my world has just gone belly up as a result of the shutdown
> >> last night. Windows buffers I/O I fear and not everything may have been
> >> written. Any thoughts ?
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Mike Brice
> >>
> >> On 2 February 2016 at 08:01, Mike Stramba ***@... mailto:
> >> ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:
> >> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >> I.e. z/os will get whatever it would get on real iron if the power was
> >> suddenly shut off.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/2/16, Mike Stramba <***@... mailto:***@...> wrote:
> >> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
> >> >
> >> > Until if / the guru's correct me, I'm gonna say NONE.
> >> >
> >> > Hercules emulates hardware, it has no idea what OS is running on it.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@... mailto:***@...
> >> [hercules-390]
> >> > <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> Hello group,
> >> >>
> >> >> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows
> >> >> GUI
> >> >> component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
> >> >> V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system
> >> >> being
> >> >> emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and
> one
> >> >> active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
> >> >> initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:
> >> >>
> >> >> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown event
> >> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
> >> >>
> >> >> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
> >> >> termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
> >> >> termination option available.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for any advice/clarification
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards
> >> >> Mike Brice
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 08:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Mike,

I'm still (maybe the only one) running Win XP.

I run everything under an administrator account (why wouldn't I,
it's a single user machine .. me !)

Since I'm not running Win10, I can only guess that you'll have to muck
with permissions or run cck... under an administrator account.

Mike


On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> I had tried to run this utility but had a problem
>
> F:\zOS\DASD>cckdcdsk.exe -3 -ro mbr002.a98
> HHC01413I Hercules utility cckdcdsk - DASD CCKD image verification; version
> 4.00.0.8143-gd4a1b5e
> HHC01414I (c) Copyright 1999-2013 by Roger Bowler, Jan Jaeger, and others
> HHC00354E 0:0000 CCKD file mbr002.a98: error in function open(): Permission
> denied
>
> My Windows permissions are OK for the directory containing the CCKD disk
> files. I am running Win 10 which I hope should not make a difference.
>
> Mike Brice
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 09:18, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
> [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Are you using shadow disks ?
>>
>> If so, make a backup of that directory.
>>
>> Either way, running cckdcdsk.exe -4 on all of your dasd's might get
>> them back (has for me).
>>
>> In future, disable any auto-shutdowns with Hercu /zos running ;)
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
>>
>> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> > Thank you Paul. I will have a cup of tea, relax, and start thinking and
>> > doing as you suggest
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Mike Brice
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2 February 2016 at 08:38, ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390] <
>> > hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I think it is unlikely that your data
>> >> would have been trashed. If you
>> >> lose power you should lose a
>> >> very small amount of data.
>> >>
>> >> I suggest you put your current
>> >> disks aside, create a new z/OS
>> >> system, then mount your old
>> >> drives in a new spot and see if
>> >> your data is still intact. I bet it is.
>> >>
>> >> BFN. Paul.
>> >>
>> >> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
>> >>
>> >> Hi Mike,
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the quick response. I understand but have a problem. This
>> >> morning my z/OS fails at ipl time as it appears it can not read the
>> >> ipl
>> >> files on the sysres volume. I get a csw status of 0C40. I have a
>> >> sinking
>> >> feeling that my world has just gone belly up as a result of the
>> >> shutdown
>> >> last night. Windows buffers I/O I fear and not everything may have
>> >> been
>> >> written. Any thoughts ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Mike Brice
>> >>
>> >> On 2 February 2016 at 08:01, Mike Stramba ***@... mailto:
>> >> ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:
>> >> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> >> I.e. z/os will get whatever it would get on real iron if the power was
>> >> suddenly shut off.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 2/2/16, Mike Stramba <***@... mailto:***@...>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>> >> >
>> >> > Until if / the guru's correct me, I'm gonna say NONE.
>> >> >
>> >> > Hercules emulates hardware, it has no idea what OS is running on it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> > On 2/2/16, Michael Brice ***@... mailto:***@...
>> >> [hercules-390]
>> >> > <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> Hello group,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules Windows
>> >> >> GUI
>> >> >> component as a result of a Windows shutdown event. I am running
>> >> >> V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the operating system
>> >> >> being
>> >> >> emulated. I leave my machine running with an active z/OS image and
>> one
>> >> >> active TSO session. My overnight backup kicks in and when finished
>> >> >> initiaytes a system shutdown. So my question is:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown
>> >> >> event
>> >> >> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an abrupt
>> >> >> termination but I would be reassured if there was a more controlled
>> >> >> termination option available.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks for any advice/clarification
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Regards
>> >> >> Mike Brice
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
Dave McGuire Mcguire@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 18:28:16 UTC
Permalink
On 02/02/2016 03:40 AM, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] wrote:
> I'm still (maybe the only one) running Win XP.
>
> I run everything under an administrator account (why wouldn't I,
> it's a single user machine .. me !)

Unless I'm mistaken (I'm not a WinGuy), this of course means that
anything you run runs with Administrator privileges. Many people think
they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 18:51:45 UTC
Permalink
On 2/2/16, Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Many people think
> they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)

????? But ???

What are you referring to ?

Viruses ?

Microsoft "under the covers" internet transmissions ?
Dave McGuire Mcguire@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 18:55:08 UTC
Permalink
On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] wrote:
>> Many people think
>> they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)
>
> ????? But ???
>
> What are you referring to ?
>
> Viruses ?
>
> Microsoft "under the covers" internet transmissions ?

Specifically, spam bots and remote DDoS source vectors, under remote
control.

Spam in particular is easily visible to anyone running a mail server.
OS TCP stack signature analysis shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
coming from Windows machines on residential DSL/cable networks. That's
down from 95+% a few years ago due to many residential network providers
blocking outbound connections on port 25.

Most Windows people never seem to wonder why their hard drive access
LED is just constantly going nuts when they're not doing anything on the
machine.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Laddie Hanus laddiehanus@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 19:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even went to a 3 year old backup. There was a process called svchost.exe taking 50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the process it would just come back.

Long story made short I narrowed it down to Windows update service. Now it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs like it used to.
Just can't run widows update any more (not a big loss)

Laddie

Sent from whatever device I am using.

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
> [hercules-390] wrote:
> >> Many people think
> >> they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)
> >
> > ????? But ???
> >
> > What are you referring to ?
> >
> > Viruses ?
> >
> > Microsoft "under the covers" internet transmissions ?
>
> Specifically, spam bots and remote DDoS source vectors, under remote
> control.
>
> Spam in particular is easily visible to anyone running a mail server.
> OS TCP stack signature analysis shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
> coming from Windows machines on residential DSL/cable networks. That's
> down from 95+% a few years ago due to many residential network providers
> blocking outbound connections on port 25.
>
> Most Windows people never seem to wonder why their hard drive access
> LED is just constantly going nuts when they're not doing anything on the
> machine.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
winkelmann@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 20:19:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi Laddie


on your specific problem with the Windows Update client you might be interested in reading this one:


Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265


Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265 Describes an update for Windows Update Client for Windows 7 that is dated June 2015.



View on support.microsoft.com https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265
Preview by Yahoo




It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes in only if you request it). For me it did the trick and I still have Windows Update available ;-)


Cheers
JÃŒrgen



---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even went to a 3 year old backup. There was a process called svchost.exe taking 50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the process it would just come back.


Long story made short I narrowed it down to Windows update service. Now it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs like it used to.
Just can't run widows update any more (not a big loss)


Laddie

Sent from whatever device I am using.

On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave McGuire ***@... mailto:***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba ***@... mailto:***@...
[hercules-390] wrote:
>> Many people think
>> they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)
>
> ????? But ???
>
> What are you referring to ?
>
> Viruses ?
>
> Microsoft "under the covers" internet transmissions ?

Specifically, spam bots and remote DDoS source vectors, under remote
control.

Spam in particular is easily visible to anyone running a mail server.
OS TCP stack signature analysis shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
coming from Windows machines on residential DSL/cable networks. That's
down from 95+% a few years ago due to many residential network providers
blocking outbound connections on port 25.

Most Windows people never seem to wonder why their hard drive access
LED is just constantly going nuts when they're not doing anything on the
machine.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Laddie Hanus laddiehanus@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 22:00:41 UTC
Permalink
Thanks

Sent from whatever device I am using.

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:19 PM, ***@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Laddie
>
>
>
> on your specific problem with the Windows Update client you might be interested in reading this one:
>
>
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
> Describes an update for Windows Update Client for Windows 7 that is dated June 2015.
> View on support.microsoft.com
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
> It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes in only if you request it). For me it did the trick and I still have Windows Update available ;-)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> JÃŒrgen
>
>
>
> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
>
> Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even went to a 3 year old backup. There was a process called svchost.exe taking 50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the process it would just come back.
>
> Long story made short I narrowed it down to Windows update service. Now it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs like it used to.
> Just can't run widows update any more (not a big loss)
>
> Laddie
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave McGuire ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba ***@...
>> [hercules-390] wrote:
>> >> Many people think
>> >> they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)
>> >
>> > ????? But ???
>> >
>> > What are you referring to ?
>> >
>> > Viruses ?
>> >
>> > Microsoft "under the covers" internet transmissions ?
>>
>> Specifically, spam bots and remote DDoS source vectors, under remote
>> control.
>>
>> Spam in particular is easily visible to anyone running a mail server.
>> OS TCP stack signature analysis shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
>> coming from Windows machines on residential DSL/cable networks. That's
>> down from 95+% a few years ago due to many residential network providers
>> blocking outbound connections on port 25.
>>
>> Most Windows people never seem to wonder why their hard drive access
>> LED is just constantly going nuts when they're not doing anything on the
>> machine.
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>> --
>> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
>> New Kensington, PA
>>
>
>
Gonzalo Martin Barrio gonzalobarrio@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 22:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Back to the original topic, I was wondering (and excuse my noob-ness):
Can't the shutdown of Hercules (and the running mainframe OS) be scripted
from the host OS (ie. Windows)?

Say, a script (.bat / powershell) that initiates the shutdown of MVS, then
powers down Hercules and finally (either same script or separate one)
performs Windows reboot/shutdown.

Just a thought.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Laddie Hanus ***@yahoo.com
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:19 PM, ***@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390] <
> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Laddie
>
>
> on your specific problem with the Windows Update client you might be
> interested in reading this one:
>
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
> Describes an update for Windows Update Client for Windows 7 that is dated
> June 2015.
> View on support.microsoft.com
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
> It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes in only if you request it).
> For me it did the trick and I still have Windows Update available ;-)
>
>
> Cheers
>
> JÃŒrgen
>
>
> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
>
> Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even went to a 3 year old backup.
> There was a process called svchost.exe taking 50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of
> memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the process it would just come back.
>
> Long story made short I narrowed it down to Windows update service. Now
> it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs like it used to.
> Just can't run widows update any more (not a big loss)
>
> Laddie
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave McGuire ***@... [hercules-390] <
> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba ***@...
> [hercules-390] wrote:
> >> Many people think
> >> they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)
> >
> > ????? But ???
> >
> > What are you referring to ?
> >
> > Viruses ?
> >
> > Microsoft "under the covers" internet transmissions ?
>
> Specifically, spam bots and remote DDoS source vectors, under remote
> control.
>
> Spam in particular is easily visible to anyone running a mail server.
> OS TCP stack signature analysis shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
> coming from Windows machines on residential DSL/cable networks. That's
> down from 95+% a few years ago due to many residential network providers
> blocking outbound connections on port 25.
>
> Most Windows people never seem to wonder why their hard drive access
> LED is just constantly going nuts when they're not doing anything on the
> machine.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>
Robert Prins robert.ah.prins@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 22:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Why don't you hibernate/sleep your system rather than shutting it down?

Oh, you've got 64Gb RAM and an SSD. Yes, that makes hibernating kill your
disk in no time...

Robert

On 2 February 2016 at 22:20, Gonzalo Martin Barrio ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Back to the original topic, I was wondering (and excuse my noob-ness):
> Can't the shutdown of Hercules (and the running mainframe OS) be scripted
> from the host OS (ie. Windows)?
>
> Say, a script (.bat / powershell) that initiates the shutdown of MVS, then
> powers down Hercules and finally (either same script or separate one)
> performs Windows reboot/shutdown.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Laddie Hanus ***@yahoo.com
> [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:19 PM, ***@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390] <
>> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Laddie
>>
>>
>> on your specific problem with the Windows Update client you might be
>> interested in reading this one:
>>
>>
>> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
>> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
>> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>> Describes an update for Windows Update Client for Windows 7 that is dated
>> June 2015.
>> View on support.microsoft.com
>> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>> Preview by Yahoo
>>
>>
>> It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes in only if you request it).
>> For me it did the trick and I still have Windows Update available ;-)
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> JÃŒrgen
>>
>>
>> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
>>
>> Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even went to a 3 year old backup.
>> There was a process called svchost.exe taking 50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of
>> memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the process it would just come back.
>>
>> Long story made short I narrowed it down to Windows update service. Now
>> it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs like it used to.
>> Just can't run widows update any more (not a big loss)
>>
>> Laddie
>>
>> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave McGuire ***@... [hercules-390] <
>> hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba ***@...
>> [hercules-390] wrote:
>> >> Many people think
>> >> they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)
>> >
>> > ????? But ???
>> >
>> > What are you referring to ?
>> >
>> > Viruses ?
>> >
>> > Microsoft "under the covers" internet transmissions ?
>>
>> Specifically, spam bots and remote DDoS source vectors, under remote
>> control.
>>
>> Spam in particular is easily visible to anyone running a mail server.
>> OS TCP stack signature analysis shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
>> coming from Windows machines on residential DSL/cable networks. That's
>> down from 95+% a few years ago due to many residential network providers
>> blocking outbound connections on port 25.
>>
>> Most Windows people never seem to wonder why their hard drive access
>> LED is just constantly going nuts when they're not doing anything on the
>> machine.
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>> --
>> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
>> New Kensington, PA
>>
>>
>
>



--
Robert AH Prins
***@gmail.com
'Shelby Beach' shelby.beach@comcast.net [hercules-390]
2016-02-03 01:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Robert,

I haven't tried it in a long time, but I am fairly certain that if you
hibernate or sleep your system with Hercules running MVS, it won't be
functioning when you restart your Windows system. In my case, Win7 Pro.

Shelby



________________________________

From: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:28 PM
To: Hercules
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Windows shutdown




Why don't you hibernate/sleep your system rather than
shutting it down?


Oh, you've got 64Gb RAM and an SSD. Yes, that makes hibernating kill
your disk in no time...


Robert


On 2 February 2016 at 22:20, Gonzalo Martin Barrio
***@gmail.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Back to the original topic, I was wondering
(and excuse my noob-ness):
Can't the shutdown of Hercules (and the running mainframe
OS) be scripted from the host OS (ie. Windows)?

Say, a script (.bat / powershell) that initiates the
shutdown of MVS, then powers down Hercules and finally (either same script
or separate one) performs Windows reboot/shutdown.

Just a thought.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Laddie Hanus
***@yahoo.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Thanks

Sent from whatever device I am using.

On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:19 PM, ***@id.ethz.ch
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Hi Laddie




on your specific problem with the Windows
Update client you might be interested in reading this one:




Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June
2015 <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>



Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
Describes an update for Windows Update
Client for Windows 7 that is dated June 2015.


View on
support.microsoft.com <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>

Preview by Yahoo






It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes
in only if you request it). For me it did the trick and I still have Windows
Update available ;-)




Cheers

Jürgen




---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com,
<***@...> wrote :


Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even
went to a 3 year old backup. There was a process called svchost.exe taking
50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the process
it would just come back.

Long story made short I narrowed it down to
Windows update service. Now it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs like
it used to.
Just can't run widows update any more (not a
big loss)

Laddie

Sent from whatever device I am using.


On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave
McGuire ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba
***@...
[hercules-390] wrote:
>> Many people think
>> they're the only person using
their Windows box. ;)
>
> ????? But ???
>
> What are you referring to ?
>
> Viruses ?
>
> Microsoft "under the covers"
internet transmissions ?

Specifically, spam bots and remote
DDoS source vectors, under remote
control.

Spam in particular is easily visible
to anyone running a mail server.
OS TCP stack signature analysis
shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
coming from Windows machines on
residential DSL/cable networks. That's
down from 95+% a few years ago due
to many residential network providers
blocking outbound connections on
port 25.

Most Windows people never seem to
wonder why their hard drive access
LED is just constantly going nuts
when they're not doing anything on the
machine.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA







--

Robert AH Prins
***@gmail.com
Michael Brice mikebrice1948@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-03 07:08:12 UTC
Permalink
A quick follow up on the post from Bert. You use a command 'which', where
does that come from ? I am using Version 4.00.0.8143. Whenever I attempt to
start the cckdcdsk utility from a DOS box I get the Windows message stating
that this app can't run. This is inconsistent to your experience so there
is clearly more to the story.

Regards
Mike Brice

On 3 February 2016 at 02:37, 'Shelby Beach' ***@comcast.net
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Robert,
>
> I haven't tried it in a long time, but I am fairly certain that if you
> hibernate or sleep your system with Hercules running MVS, it won't be
> functioning when you restart your Windows system. In my case, Win7 Pro.
>
> Shelby
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:28 PM
> To: Hercules
> Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Windows shutdown
>
>
>
>
>
> Why don't you hibernate/sleep your system rather than
> shutting it down?
>
>
> Oh, you've got 64Gb RAM and an SSD. Yes, that makes hibernating kill
> your disk in no time...
>
>
> Robert
>
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 22:20, Gonzalo Martin Barrio
> ***@gmail.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Back to the original topic, I was wondering
> (and excuse my noob-ness):
> Can't the shutdown of Hercules (and the running mainframe
> OS) be scripted from the host OS (ie. Windows)?
>
> Say, a script (.bat / powershell) that initiates the
> shutdown of MVS, then powers down Hercules and finally (either same script
> or separate one) performs Windows reboot/shutdown.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Laddie Hanus
> ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:19 PM, ***@id.ethz.ch
> [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Laddie
>
>
>
>
> on your specific problem with the Windows
> Update client you might be interested in reading this one:
>
>
>
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June
> 2015 <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>
>
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
> Describes an update for Windows Update
> Client for Windows 7 that is dated June 2015.
>
>
> View on
> support.microsoft.com <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes
> in only if you request it). For me it did the trick and I still have
> Windows
> Update available ;-)
>
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> JÃŒrgen
>
>
> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com,
> <***@...> wrote :
>
>
> Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even
> went to a 3 year old backup. There was a process called svchost.exe taking
> 50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the process
> it would just come back.
>
> Long story made short I narrowed it down to
> Windows update service. Now it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs
> like
> it used to.
> Just can't run widows update any more (not a
> big loss)
>
> Laddie
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave
> McGuire ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba
> ***@...
> [hercules-390] wrote:
> >> Many people think
> >> they're the only person using
> their Windows box. ;)
> >
> > ????? But ???
> >
> > What are you referring to ?
> >
> > Viruses ?
> >
> > Microsoft "under the covers"
> internet transmissions ?
>
> Specifically, spam bots and remote
> DDoS source vectors, under remote
> control.
>
> Spam in particular is easily visible
> to anyone running a mail server.
> OS TCP stack signature analysis
> shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
> coming from Windows machines on
> residential DSL/cable networks. That's
> down from 95+% a few years ago due
> to many residential network providers
> blocking outbound connections on
> port 25.
>
> Most Windows people never seem to
> wonder why their hard drive access
> LED is just constantly going nuts
> when they're not doing anything on the
> machine.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert AH Prins
> ***@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2016-02-03 07:33:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike.

I'm not sure which post you are
talking about from Bert. I don't
see "which" in this message
chain below.

Regardless,

> You use a command 'which', where does
> that come from ?

C:\scratch>which which
/usr/bin/which


C:\scratch>which --version
GNU which v2.20, Copyright (C) 1999 - 2008 Carlo Wood.
GNU which comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY;
This program is free software; your freedom to use, change
and distribute this program is protected by the GPL.


I got it as part of "Cygwin" for Windows.

BFN. Paul.




---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

A quick follow up on the post from Bert. You use a command 'which', where does that come from ? I am using Version 4.00.0.8143. Whenever I attempt to start the cckdcdsk utility from a DOS box I get the Windows message stating that this app can't run. This is inconsistent to your experience so there is clearly more to the story.

Regards
Mike Brice


On 3 February 2016 at 02:37, 'Shelby Beach' ***@... mailto:***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Robert,

I haven't tried it in a long time, but I am fairly certain that if you
hibernate or sleep your system with Hercules running MVS, it won't be
functioning when you restart your Windows system. In my case, Win7 Pro.

Shelby


________________________________

From: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:28 PM
To: Hercules
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Windows shutdown





Why don't you hibernate/sleep your system rather than
shutting it down?


Oh, you've got 64Gb RAM and an SSD. Yes, that makes hibernating kill
your disk in no time...


Robert


On 2 February 2016 at 22:20, Gonzalo Martin Barrio
***@... mailto:***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Back to the original topic, I was wondering
(and excuse my noob-ness):
Can't the shutdown of Hercules (and the running mainframe
OS) be scripted from the host OS (ie. Windows)?

Say, a script (.bat / powershell) that initiates the
shutdown of MVS, then powers down Hercules and finally (either same script
or separate one) performs Windows reboot/shutdown.

Just a thought.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Laddie Hanus
***@... mailto:***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Thanks

Sent from whatever device I am using.

On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:19 PM, ***@... mailto:***@...
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Hi Laddie




on your specific problem with the Windows
Update client you might be interested in reading this one:




Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June


2015 <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>



Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
Describes an update for Windows Update
Client for Windows 7 that is dated June 2015.


View on
support.microsoft.com http://support.microsoft.com <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>

Preview by Yahoo






It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes
in only if you request it). For me it did the trick and I still have Windows
Update available ;-)




Cheers

JÃŒrgen


---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com,
<***@...> wrote :


Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even
went to a 3 year old backup. There was a process called svchost.exe taking
50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the process
it would just come back.

Long story made short I narrowed it down to
Windows update service. Now it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs like
it used to.
Just can't run widows update any more (not a
big loss)

Laddie

Sent from whatever device I am using.

On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave
McGuire ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba
***@...
[hercules-390] wrote:
>> Many people think
>> they're the only person using
their Windows box. ;)
>
> ????? But ???
>
> What are you referring to ?
>
> Viruses ?
>
> Microsoft "under the covers"
internet transmissions ?

Specifically, spam bots and remote
DDoS source vectors, under remote
control.

Spam in particular is easily visible
to anyone running a mail server.
OS TCP stack signature analysis
shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
coming from Windows machines on
residential DSL/cable networks. That's
down from 95+% a few years ago due
to many residential network providers
blocking outbound connections on
port 25.

Most Windows people never seem to
wonder why their hard drive access
LED is just constantly going nuts
when they're not doing anything on the
machine.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA





--

Robert AH Prins
***@... mailto:***@...
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-03 07:34:59 UTC
Permalink
On 2/3/16, Michael Brice ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> A quick follow up on the post from Bert. You use a command 'which', where
> does that come from ? I am using Version 4.00.0.8143. Whenever I attempt to
> start the cckdcdsk utility from a DOS box I get the Windows message stating
> that this app can't run. This is inconsistent to your experience so there
> is clearly more to the story.

How are you starting Hercules ?

Have you tried starting hercules from a dos box?

I would *think* you should get the same "cannot run" message for hercules.

Have you tried starting cckdcdsk without any parameters ?

Mike
'Dave G4UGM' dave.g4ugm@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-03 09:13:22 UTC
Permalink
How did you install the Hercules you are trying to run? I have 64-bit Windows/10 and tried 3.07 X64 and 3.08 X86 and both work fine..

I did pop a HERCULES command prompt which sets the path. Windows10 has a “where” command which will show you “which” versions of the utility you are executing.

If you “installed” Hercules by extracting from a downloaded ZIP you may be having issues because windows has “blocked” the file.

In Windows Explorer find the file, right click and choose properties, and if there is an “unblock” at the bottom click “unblock”
.



Dave



P.S. This is o Windows/10 64-bit
.



The search path has been set.

You may now CD to the folder where your

hercules configuration file resides,

and simply type "hercules" to start the emulator.

The hercules dasd, tape, etc.. utilities are also available.

--The hercules team



C:\Program Files\Hercules\Hercules 3.07 (64 Bit)>cckdcdsk



cckdcdsk [-v] [-f] [-level] [-ro] file1 [file2 ...]



-v display version and exit



-f force check even if OPENED bit is on



level is a digit 0 - 4:

-0 -- minimal checking (hdr, chdr, l1tab, l2tabs)

-1 -- normal checking (hdr, chdr, l1tab, l2tabs, free spaces)

-2 -- extra checking (hdr, chdr, l1tab, l2tabs, free spaces, trkhdrs)

-3 -- maximal checking (hdr, chdr, l1tab, l2tabs, free spaces, trkimgs)

-4 -- recover everything without using meta-data



-ro open file readonly, no repairs





C:\Program Files\Hercules\Hercules 3.07 (64 Bit)>cckdcdsk -v

Hercules cckd chkdsk program Version 3.07

(c)Copyright 1999-2010 by Roger Bowler, Jan Jaeger, and others



C:\Program Files\Hercules\Hercules 3.07 (64 Bit)>



From: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 03 February 2016 07:08
To: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Windows shutdown








A quick follow up on the post from Bert. You use a command 'which', where does that come from ? I am using Version 4.00.0.8143. Whenever I attempt to start the cckdcdsk utility from a DOS box I get the Windows message stating that this app can't run. This is inconsistent to your experience so there is clearly more to the story.



Regards

Mike Brice



On 3 February 2016 at 02:37, 'Shelby Beach' ***@comcast.net <mailto:***@comcast.net> [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:



Robert,
Bert Lindeman bert.lindeman@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-03 09:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike,

This post became rather long, sorry...

1) "Which"
Maybe not the response you expected:
I have the tools like "which" and "less" for so long that I do not know
exactly where they originally came from.
It was a number of sets of tools we used at work since maybe 1990's.
Ah, maybe some of them are in http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/
(does this URL get through the filters?)

Just a small joke if I may:
===========================================================
Where did which come from
"which which"
which:
c:\util\devtw32\bin\which.EXE


which $Revision: 1.2 $
Usage: <-l | -L | /l | /L | -h | -H | /H | /?> [filename, filename,
filename, ...]
Finds first occurrence in %PATH% of filename.COM,.EXE,.BAT., or .CMD
in that order. If 'filename' has .<any>, finds specific file in %PATH%.
The -H option gives this help. The -L option gives the license.

>which -L
which: Copyright 1994, Jack J. Woehr, All Rights Reserved.
You may redistribute and modify under certain conditions; see COPYING.TXT.
COPYING.TXT is the GNU Public License, Version 2.
============================================================

Could not find a repository with these tools, but the *is* a
"which"-like command in windows:
C:\Windows\System32\where.exe

It searches the current dir and along the PATH.
I did not know ;-)


2) cckdcdsk
Now used the cckdcdsk.exe shipped with tk4-:
For the benefit of Juergen: "it *is* a bit more verbose ;-) "
============================================================
C:\zOS\tk4-\hercules\windows\64>cckdcdsk.exe -3 -ro
C:\zOS\tk4-\dasd\TEST\mvsres.148
HHC01413I Hercules utility cckdcdsk - DASD CCKD image verification;
version 4.00
HHC01414I (c) Copyright 1999-2012 by Roger Bowler, Jan Jaeger, and others

C:\zOS\tk4-\hercules\windows\64>
============================================================

I verified the properties of this cckdcdsk.exe and It has *not* been set
for a different compatibility.
(Hope I use the correct terms, as my win10 is Dutch)

To conclude: I start my command prompt using
%windir%\system32\cmd.exe /k c:\util\autoexec.bat

this autoexec.bat just sets some environment variables and starts doskey
for some aliases.

Nasty that we cannot find why cckdcdsk s not allowed to run in your
situation.
Bert


Op 2016-02-03 om 08:08 schreef Michael Brice ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390]:
>
>
> A quick follow up on the post from Bert. You use a command 'which',
> where does that come from ? I am using Version 4.00.0.8143. Whenever I
> attempt to start the cckdcdsk utility from a DOS box I get the Windows
> message stating that this app can't run. This is inconsistent to your
> experience so there is clearly more to the story.
>
> Regards
> Mike Brice
>
> On 3 February 2016 at 02:37, 'Shelby Beach' ***@comcast.net
> <mailto:***@comcast.net> [hercules-390]
> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
> I haven't tried it in a long time, but I am fairly certain that if you
> hibernate or sleep your system with Hercules running MVS, it won't be
> functioning when you restart your Windows system. In my case, Win7
> Pro.
>
> Shelby
>
<snipped off remainder>
Robert Prins robert.ah.prins@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-03 08:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Shelby,

My PC is on nearly 24x7, hybrid sleeps after one hour, hibernates after two
hours. z/OS 1.10 just continues running, and even running jobs continue
normally. (W7-64 Pro)

Only issue I had (haven't used TCP/IP for a long time) is that that didn't
work any more after a resume, which may have had something to do with a
changed IP address of the PC dished out from the modem.

Robert

On 3 February 2016 at 01:37, 'Shelby Beach' ***@comcast.net
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Robert,
>
> I haven't tried it in a long time, but I am fairly certain that if you
> hibernate or sleep your system with Hercules running MVS, it won't be
> functioning when you restart your Windows system. In my case, Win7 Pro.
>
> Shelby
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:28 PM
> To: Hercules
> Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Windows shutdown
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Why don't you hibernate/sleep your system rather than
> shutting it down?
>
>
> Oh, you've got 64Gb RAM and an SSD. Yes, that makes hibernating kill
> your disk in no time...
>
>
> Robert
>
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 22:20, Gonzalo Martin Barrio
> ***@gmail.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Back to the original topic, I was wondering
> (and excuse my noob-ness):
> Can't the shutdown of Hercules (and the running mainframe
> OS) be scripted from the host OS (ie. Windows)?
>
> Say, a script (.bat / powershell) that initiates the
> shutdown of MVS, then powers down Hercules and finally (either same script
> or separate one) performs Windows reboot/shutdown.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Laddie Hanus
> ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:19 PM, ***@id.ethz.ch
> [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Laddie
>
>
>
>
> on your specific problem with the Windows
> Update client you might be interested in reading this one:
>
>
>
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June
> 2015 <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>
>
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
> Describes an update for Windows Update
> Client for Windows 7 that is dated June 2015.
>
>
> View on
> support.microsoft.com <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes
> in only if you request it). For me it did the trick and I still have
Windows
> Update available ;-)
>
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> JÃŒrgen
>
>
> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com,
> <***@...> wrote :
>
>
> Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even
> went to a 3 year old backup. There was a process called svchost.exe taking
> 50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed the
process
> it would just come back.
>
> Long story made short I narrowed it down to
> Windows update service. Now it's disabled at startup and my laptop runs
like
> it used to.
> Just can't run widows update any more (not a
> big loss)
>
> Laddie
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave
> McGuire ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba
> ***@...
> [hercules-390] wrote:
> >> Many people think
> >> they're the only person using
> their Windows box. ;)
> >
> > ????? But ???
> >
> > What are you referring to ?
> >
> > Viruses ?
> >
> > Microsoft "under the covers"
> internet transmissions ?
>
> Specifically, spam bots and remote
> DDoS source vectors, under remote
> control.
>
> Spam in particular is easily visible
> to anyone running a mail server.
> OS TCP stack signature analysis
> shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
> coming from Windows machines on
> residential DSL/cable networks. That's
> down from 95+% a few years ago due
> to many residential network providers
> blocking outbound connections on
> port 25.
>
> Most Windows people never seem to
> wonder why their hard drive access
> LED is just constantly going nuts
> when they're not doing anything on the
> machine.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert AH Prins
> ***@gmail.com
>
>
>
>




--
Robert AH Prins
***@gmail.com
'Shelby Beach' shelby.beach@comcast.net [hercules-390]
2016-02-03 17:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Robert,

Well I can't speak for z/OS, but I'm quite sure MVS 3.8 didn't like it. When
I get a chance I'll check it again.

Shelby



________________________________

From: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 12:24 AM
To: Hercules
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Windows shutdown




Shelby,


My PC is on nearly 24x7, hybrid sleeps after one hour, hibernates
after two hours. z/OS 1.10 just continues running, and even running jobs
continue normally. (W7-64 Pro)

Only issue I had (haven't used TCP/IP for a long time) is that that
didn't work any more after a resume, which may have had something to do with
a changed IP address of the PC dished out from the modem.


Robert


On 3 February 2016 at 01:37, 'Shelby Beach' ***@comcast.net
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Robert,
>
> I haven't tried it in a long time, but I am fairly certain that if
you
> hibernate or sleep your system with Hercules running MVS, it won't
be
> functioning when you restart your Windows system. In my case, Win7
Pro.
>
> Shelby
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:28 PM
> To: Hercules
> Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Windows shutdown
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Why don't you hibernate/sleep your system rather than
> shutting it down?
>
>
> Oh, you've got 64Gb RAM and an SSD. Yes, that makes hibernating
kill
> your disk in no time...
>
>
> Robert
>
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 22:20, Gonzalo Martin Barrio
> ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Back to the original topic, I was wondering
> (and excuse my noob-ness):
> Can't the shutdown of Hercules (and the running mainframe
> OS) be scripted from the host OS (ie. Windows)?
>
> Say, a script (.bat / powershell) that initiates the
> shutdown of MVS, then powers down Hercules and finally (either
same script
> or separate one) performs Windows reboot/shutdown.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Laddie Hanus
> ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:19 PM, ***@id.ethz.ch
> [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Laddie
>
>
>
>
> on your specific problem with the Windows
> Update client you might be interested in reading this one:
>
>
>
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June
> 2015 <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>
>
>
> Windows Update Client for Windows 7: June 2015
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
> Describes an update for Windows Update
> Client for Windows 7 that is dated June 2015.
>
>
> View on
> support.microsoft.com
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's an optional update (i.e. one that comes
> in only if you request it). For me it did the trick and I still
have Windows
> Update available ;-)
>
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Jürgen
>
>
> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com,
> <***@...> wrote :
>
>
> Windows Update was a bad one for me. I even
> went to a 3 year old backup. There was a process called
svchost.exe taking
> 50% of my cpu and 1.5 gig of memory (out of 4 gig). If I killed
the process
> it would just come back.
>
> Long story made short I narrowed it down to
> Windows update service. Now it's disabled at startup and my laptop
runs like
> it used to.
> Just can't run widows update any more (not a
> big loss)
>
> Laddie
>
> Sent from whatever device I am using.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Dave
> McGuire ***@... [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On 02/02/2016 01:51 PM, Mike Stramba
> ***@...
> [hercules-390] wrote:
> >> Many people think
> >> they're the only person using
> their Windows box. ;)
> >
> > ????? But ???
> >
> > What are you referring to ?
> >
> > Viruses ?
> >
> > Microsoft "under the covers"
> internet transmissions ?
>
> Specifically, spam bots and remote
> DDoS source vectors, under remote
> control.
>
> Spam in particular is easily visible
> to anyone running a mail server.
> OS TCP stack signature analysis
> shows that about 70% of inbound spam is
> coming from Windows machines on
> residential DSL/cable networks. That's
> down from 95+% a few years ago due
> to many residential network providers
> blocking outbound connections on
> port 25.
>
> Most Windows people never seem to
> wonder why their hard drive access
> LED is just constantly going nuts
> when they're not doing anything on the
> machine.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert AH Prins
> ***@gmail.com
>
>
>
>




--
Robert AH Prins
***@gmail.com
Gregg Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 23:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Hello!
Close. The thing itself. Bring up taskmanager. You'll see scads of
things running, besides what you want to run. There's also an
especially important idle process. As long as that process named for a
Monty Python member keeps working your box has plenty of time to make
available for you to do stuff.
-----
Gregg C Levine ***@gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> On 2/2/16, Dave McGuire ***@neurotica.com [hercules-390]
> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Many people think
>> they're the only person using their Windows box. ;)
>
> ????? But ???
>
> What are you referring to ?
>
> Viruses ?
>
> Microsoft "under the covers" internet transmissions ?
>
kerravon86@yahoo.com.au [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 09:17:17 UTC
Permalink
> F:\zOS\DASD>cckdcdsk.exe -3 -ro mbr002.a98

Try without the "-ro".

Also show me the result of this:

attrib mbr002.a98

Also note that it was suggested that
you use "-4" rather than "-3", so try
that too.

BFN. Paul.
winkelmann@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 09:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike


A quick note on using "-4": I recommend this as a last resort option only. Usually "-1" or "-2" will suffice, unless the system was highly active on the DASD in question at the moment of the crash. Of course there might remain some undetected inconsistencies, but in terms of how much data is still readable after recovery you are often better off with the lower check levels. In any case: Make a copy of the DASD image before running any repairs...


Cheers
JÃŒrgen
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 10:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Why -4 as "last resort" ?

Why are there "levels" at all ?

Should be a -just-fix-it switch ;)

Mike

On 2/2/16, ***@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike
>
>
> A quick note on using "-4": I recommend this as a last resort option only.
> Usually "-1" or "-2" will suffice, unless the system was highly active on
> the DASD in question at the moment of the crash. Of course there might
> remain some undetected inconsistencies, but in terms of how much data is
> still readable after recovery you are often better off with the lower check
> levels. In any case: Make a copy of the DASD image before running any
> repairs...
>
>
> Cheers
> JÃŒrgen
>
>
>
Michael Brice mikebrice1948@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 10:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Tried with an admin command prompt and Win 10 says 'This app can't run in
your PC'. So I guess I/we need an upgrade of these utilities to be Win 10
capable. Hopefully Roger Bowler and his colleagues are receptive to the
need.

Regards
Mike Brice


On 2 February 2016 at 11:01, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Why -4 as "last resort" ?
>
> Why are there "levels" at all ?
>
> Should be a -just-fix-it switch ;)
>
> Mike
>
> On 2/2/16, ***@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390]
> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > Hi Mike
> >
> >
> > A quick note on using "-4": I recommend this as a last resort option
> only.
> > Usually "-1" or "-2" will suffice, unless the system was highly active on
> > the DASD in question at the moment of the crash. Of course there might
> > remain some undetected inconsistencies, but in terms of how much data is
> > still readable after recovery you are often better off with the lower
> check
> > levels. In any case: Make a copy of the DASD image before running any
> > repairs...
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > JÃŒrgen
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Bert Lindeman bert.lindeman@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 10:55:26 UTC
Permalink
Mike,

Did not take the time to look back to which version of hercules you use,
but . . . .

Running win10 here.
In a command prompt as an administrative user, but NOT in an elevated
command prompt:
===============================================================
C:\zOS\tk4-\dasd\TEST>which cckdcdsk.exe
cckdcdsk.exe:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Hercules\Hercules 3.12 (64 Bit)\cckdcdsk.exe
===============================================================

On a copy of some random disk no problem:
===============================================================

C:\zOS\tk4-\dasd\TEST>cckdcdsk.exe -3 -ro mvsres.148

C:\zOS\tk4-\dasd\TEST>
===============================================================

cckdcdsk in not very verbose ;-)

Maybe this helps a bit?

Bert


Op 2016-02-02 om 11:23 schreef Michael Brice ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390]:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Tried with an admin command prompt and Win 10 says 'This app can't run
> in your PC'. So I guess I/we need an upgrade of these utilities to be
> Win 10 capable. Hopefully Roger Bowler and his colleagues are
> receptive to the need.
>
> Regards
> Mike Brice
>
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 11:01, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com
> <mailto:***@gmail.com> [hercules-390]
> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Why -4 as "last resort" ?
>
> Why are there "levels" at all ?
>
> Should be a -just-fix-it switch ;)
>
> Mike
>
> On 2/2/16, ***@id.ethz.ch <mailto:***@id.ethz.ch>
> [hercules-390]
> <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
> > Hi Mike
> >
> >
> > A quick note on using "-4": I recommend this as a last resort
> option only.
> > Usually "-1" or "-2" will suffice, unless the system was highly
> active on
> > the DASD in question at the moment of the crash. Of course there
> might
> > remain some undetected inconsistencies, but in terms of how much
> data is
> > still readable after recovery you are often better off with the
> lower check
> > levels. In any case: Make a copy of the DASD image before
> running any
> > repairs...
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > JÃŒrgen
> >
> >
> >
>
winkelmann@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 11:09:15 UTC
Permalink
> ---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

>
> . . .
>
> C:\zOS\tk4-\dasd\TEST>cckdcdsk.exe -3 -ro mvsres.148

>

> C:\zOS\tk4-\dasd\TEST>

> ===============================================================

>

> cckdcdsk in not very verbose ;-)
>
> . . .
>
Hi Bert


Thanks for the info. I never ran it on Windows 10, so it's good to know it works.


Lucky you, it isn't verbose . Watch out how verbose it gets when you run it against a corrupt DASD... just for fun (and on a copy, of course) I bet running it against the same DASD after having opened and saved the image using wordpad will make cckdcdsk tell you bad stories in heavy doses . With "-4" you will then most probably end up with a nice, clean and empty image...


Cheers
JÃŒrgen
winkelmann@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 10:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike


my response on "-4" was to Mike Brice's original problem and is meant as a quick "emergency" heads up to avoid him doing something he might regret later on.


Note that we have no such thing like a journaled file system on an MVS DASD. Also, cckdcdsk doesn't know a thing about the data structures on the DASD image it inspects and fixes. So, it may in fact be that "-4" destroys more than it fixes (from an MVS point of view).


My only concern was to give this heads up... not to discuss why cckdcdsk doesn't do the same fsck does on Linux or chkdsk does on Windows.


Cheers
JÃŒrgen



---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Why -4 as "last resort" ?

Why are there "levels" at all ?

Should be a -just-fix-it switch ;)

Mike

On 2/2/16, ***@... mailto:***@... [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike
>
>
> A quick note on using "-4": I recommend this as a last resort option only.
> Usually "-1" or "-2" will suffice, unless the system was highly active on
> the DASD in question at the moment of the crash. Of course there might
> remain some undetected inconsistencies, but in terms of how much data is
> still readable after recovery you are often better off with the lower check
> levels. In any case: Make a copy of the DASD image before running any
> repairs...
>
>
> Cheers
> JÃŒrgen
>
>
>
Greg Smith gsmith@nc.rr.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 11:59:27 UTC
Permalink
On 02 Feb 2016 02:35:02 -0800
"***@id.ethz.ch [hercules-390]" <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

> my response on "-4" was to Mike Brice's original problem and is
> meant as a quick "emergency" heads up to avoid him doing something he
> might regret later on.
>
> Note that we have no such thing like a journaled file system on an
> MVS DASD. Also, cckdcdsk doesn't know a thing about the data
> structures on the DASD image it inspects and fixes. So, it may in
> fact be that "-4" destroys more than it fixes (from an MVS point of
> view).
>
> My only concern was to give this heads up... not to discuss why
> cckdcdsk doesn't do the same fsck does on Linux or chkdsk does on
> Windows.

From the cckd_chkdsk comments in cckdutil.c:
* check levels
* -1 devhdr, cdevhdr, l1 table
* 0 devhdr, cdevhdr, l1 table, l2 tables
* 1 devhdr, cdevhdr, l1 table, l2 tables, free spaces
* 2 devhdr, cdevhdr, l1 table, l2 tables, free spaces, trkhdrs
* 3 devhdr, cdevhdr, l1 table, l2 tables, free spaces, trkimgs
* 4 devhdr, cdevhdr. Build everything else from recovery

So, for a cckdcdsk -1 check (which means check level 1), all the meta
structures are read and sanity checked. If a discrepancy is found then
the check is elevated to -2. Normally this results in rebuilding the
free space when hercules isn't shutdown properly.

Check level 2 additionally reads the track headers (0CCHH) for each
track which are sanity checked. The level is elevated to -3 if problems
are found.

A check level 3 results in the entire file being read and each
compressed track image is decompressed and sanity checked. Since this
can take a quite a bit of time, the code tries to avoid doing this
unless it is obvious that there is something seriously wrong with the
file. If problems are detected then recovery will be initiated.

Check level 4 treats the entire file (past the devhdr and cdevhdr) as
free space and tries byte by byte to locate track images and recover
them. Any track images that aren't recovered are set to be null track
images. Note that a track will be a null track for a volume if it has
never been used.

There are 3 types of null tracks:
o) HA R0 EOF EOT (home address, record 0, end-of-file, end-of-track)
1) HA R0 EOT
2) linux style (HA, R0, 10 4K records, EOT)

EOF is a record 1 where the key length and data length are 0. For a
linux style null track (3390 only), the 10 4K records are all zeroes.

I think a problem can come about using -4 when an MVS file has its EOF
at the beginning of a track but null track format 1 is being used
(meaning the file isn't properly terminated). It's been quite a while
so I can't exactly remember what the problem is.

Anyway, don't use -4 without making a backup. -3 should be sufficient.

If hercules shuts down without shutting down the guest operating
system, then the files should get properly closed (meaning no
corruption). If the host operating system is shut down then hercules is
not properly terminated but the disk cache should be written to disk
and the cckd files should be recoverable. If the system is powered off
then bad things could happen. This really depends on how the host
operating system manages its disk cache and how it recovers the
physical hard drive when restarted.

I can't think of any reason why cckdcdsk would need any special
privileges (it certainly doesn't on linux). It simply reads and writes
to a file that is opened and closed normally, same as almost every
other program. The file permissions and ownership just need to be
correct.

There are "levels" for the cckdcdsk program because a lower check level
may pass but there are still errors in the file.

Greg
Tony Harminc tharminc@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 18:15:05 UTC
Permalink
On 2 February 2016 at 06:59, Greg Smith ***@nc.rr.com wrote:

> Check level 4 treats the entire file (past the devhdr and cdevhdr) as
> free space and tries byte by byte to locate track images and recover
> them.

Put another way, it does not use the metadata at all, but tries to
find tracks using several very cool techniques (thanks Greg!). But
these techniques can on occasion find tracks that aren't really there,
though almost certainly they will be null tracks.

> Any track images that aren't recovered are set to be null track
> images. Note that a track will be a null track for a volume if it has
> never been used.

Which isn't generally a problem.

> There are 3 types of null tracks:
> o) HA R0 EOF EOT (home address, record 0, end-of-file, end-of-track)
> 1) HA R0 EOT
> 2) linux style (HA, R0, 10 4K records, EOT)
>
> EOF is a record 1 where the key length and data length are 0. For a
> linux style null track (3390 only), the 10 4K records are all zeroes.
>
> I think a problem can come about using -4 when an MVS file has its EOF
> at the beginning of a track but null track format 1 is being used
> (meaning the file isn't properly terminated). It's been quite a while
> so I can't exactly remember what the problem is.

The way you put it in 2008 was:

> The bad news is that there is no way to recover an MVS EOF if the EOF
> record is the r1 record on the track ... that's indicated by meta-data
> alone and cckdcdsk -4 ignores the meta-data (or tries to).

For anyone new to all this and who cares about the inner workings,
Greg and I had a fairly detailed discussion in a thread starting
2008-08-25 under the title "Trying to understand CCKD integrity"

Tony H.
Mike Stramba mikestramba@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 18:24:16 UTC
Permalink
On 2/2/16, Tony Harminc ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> For anyone new to all this and who cares about the inner workings,
> Greg and I had a fairly detailed discussion in a thread starting
> 2008-08-25 under the title "Trying to understand CCKD integrity"

I will check out that thread.

By "metadata", does that refer to Hercules "internal structures" or
IBM CCKD metadata ?

Mike
Tony Harminc tharminc@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 18:29:58 UTC
Permalink
On 2 February 2016 at 13:24, Mike Stramba ***@gmail.com wrote:
> By "metadata", does that refer to Hercules "internal structures" or
> IBM CCKD metadata ?

[Assuming you meant "IBM CKD", as there is no IBM CCKD.] We're
talking about Hercules CCKD "internal structures".

Tony H.
Greg Smith gsmith@nc.rr.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-02 22:19:07 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:15:05 -0500
"Tony Harminc ***@gmail.com [hercules-390]"
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> For anyone new to all this and who cares about the inner workings,
> Greg and I had a fairly detailed discussion in a thread starting
> 2008-08-25 under the title "Trying to understand CCKD integrity"
>
> Tony H.

Wow, you have a much better memory than I do!! I believe the thread can
be found at
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hercules-390/conversations/messages/54937

Good news (maybe!) is that I have regained some interest in cckd
development again. Currently I am in the process of implementing lzo
(http://www.oberhumer.com/opensource/lzo/) compression ... I have no
idea if its available for windows though. This is getting me
re-acclimated to the code, so the next thing to tackle is cckd>4G
files. I have a straightforward idea on how to implement that. After
that I want to add CKD and CCKD very large volume support. This is
where the top 12 bits of HH in CCHH is pre-pendend to CC. I also want
to modify the garbage collector to be more friendly to flash type
devices (ie reduce writing). And there's more!!, but that's enough for
now.

Greg
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 00:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Mike Brice wrote:

> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules
> Windows GUI component as a result of a Windows shutdown event.
>
> I am running V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the
> operating system being emulated. I leave my machine running
> with an active z/OS image and one active TSO session.
>
> My overnight backup kicks in and when finished initiates a
> system shutdown. So my question is:
>
> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows shutdown
> event?

Not currently, no. And that is likely your problem.


> If so what steps are taken to shut down the z/OS image

Currently, none!

Currently, if HercGUI is asked to close/exit while Hercules is still up and running, it will display a warning/confirmation dialog warning you about the danger of doing so (potential guest loss of data as a result of Hercules "pulling the rug out from under it") and wait for your response (which can be either "I don't give a crap! Shutdown now anyway!" or "Oops! I forgot I had a Hercules guest still running! THANKs for catching my mistake! Please do NOT shutdown/exit!" (but not in so many words of course)).

This shutdown/exit confirmation dialog is not currently coded with any type of default timeout value. It will instead just sit there and wait for a response.

(And please note: if you do happen to respond "I know what I'm doing! Go ahead and exit HercGUI anyway!", HercGUI will *always* issue an 'exit' command to your running Hercules instance first, before exiting itself. That is to say, HercGUI will *never* exit without ensuring that Hercules itself is shutdown first.)


> I suspect the environment is resilient and will survive an
> abrupt termination

I wouldn't be so sure!

If Hercules is terminated normally (via the 'exit' or 'quit' or 'ssd' commands), then yes, even though your running Hercules guest may not be made aware of it (depending on whether you used the 'ssd' command or the 'exit' or 'quit' commands), Hercules itself will shutdown gracefully, closing all of its files, etc, so there should not be any loss of data from Hercules's point of view (i.e. all of your emulated dasd files *should* be coherent and not damaged).

Whether the state of your guest, upon restart, is still coherent or not depends of course on your guest. Since you've stated you're running z/OS your guest (z/OS) will probably not complain at all (or if it does, not very loudly; z/OS is, as you said, pretty resilient to such occurrences). Other guests however may still react badly. It all depends on how resilient they are.

HOWEVER....

Such is probably not occurring in your case.

What is likely happening is the Windows shutdown request is simply causing HercGUI to display the previously mentioned exit confirmation dialog thereby causing it to get "stuck" waiting for a response (which will never occur because you are in bed sleeping (or doing something naughty with who knows who or who knows what)), and Windows's new shutdown logic introduced with Vista is timing out waiting for HercGUI to exit thereby forcing it to rudely "kill" the HercGUI process (and very likely the Hercules process as well) in order to proceed with the requested system shutdown.

When THAT happens, Hercules's dasd image files are *not* gracefully closed and loss of data *will* very likely occur, causing not only Hercules itself but also your guest too to complain the next time either is started (which is not good).


> but I would be reassured if there was a
> more controlled termination option available.

Agreed 100%! It appears, based on your report, that I definitely need to fix HercGUI to be more responsible regarding system shutdown/logoff. I'll try to get that fixed in the next release.

Until then however, I'm afraid you're just going to have to adjust your backup's shutdown script to first check whether HercGUI/Hercules is still running or not (I can help you with that if needed) and NOT shut your system down if either is.


> Thanks for any advice/clarification
>
> Regards
> Mike Brice

You're very welcome Mike, and apologize for HercGUI's current incorrect handling of such situations. As I stated I'll try to get that fixed in the next release.

In the mean time I would like to thank YOU for bringing this issue to my attention, and look forward to your (hopefully!) eventual purchase of HercGUI anyway, despite its current shortcoming, while waiting for the fix. :)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
somitcw@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 04:08:47 UTC
Permalink
In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote:
> Mike Brice wrote:
>> I have a question relating to the behaviour of the Hercules
>>Windows GUI component as a result of a Windows shutdown event.
>> I am running V1.12.6.3219 on Windows 10 with z/OS V1.9 as the
>>operating system being emulated. I leave my machine running
>>with an active z/OS image and one active TSO session.
>> My overnight backup kicks in and when finished initiates a
>>system shutdown. So my question is:
>> Does the Hercules GUI component respond to the Windows
>>shutdown event?
> Not currently, no. And that is likely your problem.
- - - remainder snipped - - -

Can the end of you backups tell zOS to start its shutdown script
and quit Hercules?
Or a JES2 timer if you know what clock time to shutdown?
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 08:33:45 UTC
Permalink
***@yahoo.com wrote:

> Can the end of you backups tell zOS to start its
> shutdown script and quit Hercules?
>
> Or a JES2 timer if you know what clock time to shutdown?

Another excellent choice. Thank you somitcw!

Yes, rather than have your backup script not shutdown your system if Hercules is still running, it could instead run a script that first attempts the shutdown Hercules itself.

This can be easily accomplished via the "hcmd" tool if you've enabled the HTTP Server in your Hercules config file. The "hmd" tool is available from my public FTP site at ftp://www.softdevlabs.com. It's in the "networking" directory.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
Gonzalo Martin Barrio gonzalobarrio@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 16:45:50 UTC
Permalink
And that's exactly what I asked earlier, but was completely ignored... oh
well.
Glad to know its doable.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:33 AM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)'
***@gmail.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> ***@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Can the end of you backups tell zOS to start its
> > shutdown script and quit Hercules?
> >
> > Or a JES2 timer if you know what clock time to shutdown?
>
> Another excellent choice. Thank you somitcw!
>
> Yes, rather than have your backup script not shutdown your system if
> Hercules is still running, it could instead run a script that first
> attempts the shutdown Hercules itself.
>
> This can be easily accomplished via the "hcmd" tool if you've enabled the
> HTTP Server in your Hercules config file. The "hmd" tool is available from
> my public FTP site at ftp://www.softdevlabs.com. It's in the "networking"
> directory.
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Software Development Laboratories
> http://www.softdevlabs.com
> mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
>
>
>
somitcw@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 17:03:41 UTC
Permalink
In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote:
> And that's exactly what I asked earlier, but was completely ignored... oh well.
>Glad to know its doable.
- - - old notes snipped - - -

After the zOS shutdown, double halt eod, and quiesce, don't forget
the Hercules quit to flush, close, and detach the disk images and
closing HERCGUI just to do it clean.
Ivan Warren ivan@vmfacility.fr [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 17:26:04 UTC
Permalink
On 2/4/2016 6:03 PM, ***@yahoo.com [hercules-390] wrote:
> In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote:
>> And that's exactly what I asked earlier, but was completely ignored... oh well.
>> Glad to know its doable.
> - - - old notes snipped - - -
>
> After the zOS shutdown, double halt eod, and quiesce, don't forget
> the Hercules quit to flush, close, and detach the disk images and
> closing HERCGUI just to do it clean.
>
>
I am wondering if a Machine Check with bit 8 set to 1 (Warning machine
check) couldn't be used to indicate to the guest OS that power is about
to be lost.

Under windows I think there is an event that indicates an imminent OS
shutdown.

I'm quite sure that under Posix systems, a signal is sent to indicate
the system is shutting down (or that the process is requested to be
terminated in an orderly fashion).

If any of these are caught, the machine check could be sent (or for
z/Arch systems which support them - through a SP function such as when
"quit" is issued - requesting an orderly system shutdown).

--Ivan



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Martin@pi-sysprog.de [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 17:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Ivan,

>> I am wondering if a Machine Check with bit 8 set to 1 (Warning machine
>> check) couldn't be used to indicate to the guest OS that power is
>> about to be lost.

there is such an animal even in z/Arch. It is shutdownsignal. But that
is all I know.

z/VM and z/VSE do react on that signal (and I am sure that Linux does
as well).....it should not be that difficult to identify that

--
Martin

Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE
more at http://www.picapcpu.de
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 20:34:57 UTC
Permalink
Martin wrote:

[...]
> there is such an animal even in z/Arch. It is shutdownsignal.
> But that is all I know.

I'm not so sure about it being a "z/Arch" thing, but it is something that apparently real iron supports which is why I'm presuming Jan Jaeger added support for it to Hercules back in 2003 in the form of the "ssd" command.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
Ivan Warren ivan@vmfacility.fr [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 21:05:19 UTC
Permalink
On 2/4/2016 9:34 PM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)' ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] wrote:
> Martin wrote:
>
> [...]
>> there is such an animal even in z/Arch. It is shutdownsignal.
>> But that is all I know.
> I'm not so sure about it being a "z/Arch" thing, but it is something that apparently real iron supports which is why I'm presuming Jan Jaeger added support for it to Hercules back in 2003 in the form of the "ssd" command.
>
Fish

I was more thinking in the line of something that didn't required
specific support from an auxiliary utility (by sending specific commands
using any peculiar protocol to any number of hercules processes
running... I happen to have systems with more than one hercules system
running so http is unpractical at this point while event signaling can
be broadcast).

Windows does send a "shutdown" event of some sort when it shuts down
(which could trigger the "ssd" (System ShutDown) or "quit" (which issues
the same signal and THEN triggers hercules termination). The idea is to
have an ordered shutdown and a clean closure of hercules for proper DASD
(especially CCKD/CFBA) closing.

Unix and Linux have the same protocols (through its init system) which
when going into shutdown mode sends signals to all processes.

The protocols are slightly different since I think Windows has a
handshake to shutdown processes while unix/linux/posix is only timed
base (unless it is included in the init process scripts).

--Ivan



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 21:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Ivan Warren wrote:

> Fish
>
> I was more thinking in the line of something that didn't
> require specific support from an auxiliary utility (by sending
> specific commands using any peculiar protocol to any number
> of hercules processes running... I happen to have systems with
> more than one hercules system running so http is unpractical
> at this point while event signaling can be broadcast).

Why impractical? Each system can specify a different HTTP Server port (HTTP PORT config file statement: http://hercules-390.github.io/html/hercconf.html#HTTPPORT) and thus whatever command you wish to send can be sent to whichever Hercules instance desired.


> Windows does send a "shutdown" event of some sort when it
> shuts down (which could trigger the "ssd" (System ShutDown)
> or "quit" (which issues the same signal and THEN triggers
> hercules termination).

Now *that's* a good idea! I'm not sure how such would be done on non-Windows systems, but on Windows at least, such a feature would be fairly trivially easy to implement. Thanks for the great idea! The obvious seems to elude me from time to time.


> The idea is to have an ordered shutdown and a clean closure
> of hercules for proper DASD (especially CCKD/CFBA) closing.

Yep. That's the idea: a clean/orderly Hercules (and preferably guest as well) shutdown so prevent potential data loss.


> Unix and Linux have the same protocols (through its init system)
> which when going into shutdown mode sends signals to all processes.

I'll have to do some research. (Linux is not my forte)


> The protocols are slightly different since I think Windows has
> a handshake to shutdown processes while unix/linux/posix is only
> timed base (unless it is included in the init process scripts).

Hmmm... could be a problem. Maybe. Not sure. We'll see.

Maybe some of our more experienced Linux/Unix (i.e. NON-Windows) user can offer some suggestions/wisdom here?

In any case, adding a bit of code to Hercules to detect when the HOST is being shutdown (and on Windows, optionally when the user is being logged off as well) is a *great* idea IMO.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
'John P. Hartmann' jphartmann@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 22:31:23 UTC
Permalink
On 02/04/2016 10:42 PM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)'
***@gmail.com [hercules-390] wrote:
> > Unix and Linux have the same protocols (through its init system)
> > which when going into shutdown mode sends signals to all processes.
>
> I'll have to do some research. (Linux is not my forte)

It will be SIGHUP and then later SIGTERM if memory serves.


------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
Post message: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
List owner: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

Files and archives at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390

Get the latest version of Hercules from:
http://www.hercules-390.org


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
Ivan Warren ivan@vmfacility.fr [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 22:52:23 UTC
Permalink
On 2/4/2016 11:31 PM, 'John P. Hartmann' ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 10:42 PM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)'
> ***@gmail.com [hercules-390] wrote:
>> > Unix and Linux have the same protocols (through its init system)
>> > which when going into shutdown mode sends signals to all processes.
>>
>> I'll have to do some research. (Linux is not my forte)
> It will be SIGHUP and then later SIGTERM if memory serves.
>
>
John,

I think it's SIGKILL (15) and then SIGTERM (9)... SIGTERM can't be
trapped and is a mandatory process termination (only exception is by the
kernel). The amount of time between SIGKILL and SIGTERM is system specific.

A SIGHUP is usually an indication of loss of terminal - and for daemons
an indication to reload a config file / a request to dump status
information.

I am quite certain Windows DOES have a handshaking mechanism so that
applications requesting more time to shutdown exists (who never had a
notepad session opened and windows ASKING what to do with the file)
while linux/unix may have no generalized protocol for this (it requires
a Unix SYSV or BSD style shutdown script to allow this so that "init" is
aware there is something that needs to be finished before shutting down
when going into state "0" (shutdown) or "S" (Single user mode)).

So IMHO, we need Windows to trap and enter into a handshaking protocol
with hercules so that it can wait for a proper shutdown OR suspend
(which is what vmware workstation does) and proper hercules termination
. And make available a termination script for hercules and/or a proper
signal handling.

Then again....

Shutting down the underlying OS (or killing the hercules process)
amounts to pulling the plug on your system... I don't know.

--Ivan



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 12:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Ivan Warren wrote:

[...]
> I think it's SIGKILL (15) and then SIGTERM (9)... SIGTERM
> can't be trapped and is a mandatory process termination
> (only exception is by the kernel). The amount of time between
> SIGKILL and SIGTERM is system specific.

<nit>

Actually, based on my Googling, it's the other way around: doing a 'kill' on a process causes SIGTERM to be sent first (which *can* be trapped an processed by a signal handler), and then later (after a system specific amount of time which appears to be 10 seconds on most systems), a SIGKILL is sent (which *cannot* be trapped).

With me not being a Linux person however, I could of course be wrong.

</nit>

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
'John P. Hartmann' jphartmann@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 13:22:22 UTC
Permalink
kill is a command that sends a signal to a process. SIGTERM (which is
what ctl-c normally gets you) can be trapped and is sent first during
UNIX shutdown. SIGKILL (kill -9) cannot be trapped by the target process.

The signal names are mandated by POSIX; the numbers are not.

On 02/05/2016 01:58 PM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)'
***@gmail.com [hercules-390] wrote:
> Ivan Warren wrote:
>
> [...]
> > I think it's SIGKILL (15) and then SIGTERM (9)... SIGTERM
> > can't be trapped and is a mandatory process termination
> > (only exception is by the kernel). The amount of time between
> > SIGKILL and SIGTERM is system specific.
>
> <nit>
>
> Actually, based on my Googling, it's the other way around: doing a
> 'kill' on a process causes SIGTERM to be sent first (which *can* be
> trapped an processed by a signal handler), and then later (after a
> system specific amount of time which appears to be 10 seconds on most
> systems), a SIGKILL is sent (which *cannot* be trapped).
>
> With me not being a Linux person however, I could of course be wrong.
>
> </nit>
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Software Development Laboratories
> http://www.softdevlabs.com
> mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
>


------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
Post message: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
List owner: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

Files and archives at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390

Get the latest version of Hercules from:
http://www.hercules-390.org


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
William D ASM bturnersa@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 13:44:02 UTC
Permalink
On 05/02/2016 14:58, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)' ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] wrote:
>
> Ivan Warren wrote:
>
> [...]
> > I think it's SIGKILL (15) and then SIGTERM (9)... SIGTERM
> > can't be trapped and is a mandatory process termination
> > (only exception is by the kernel). The amount of time between
> > SIGKILL and SIGTERM is system specific.
>
> <nit>
>
> Actually, based on my Googling, it's the other way around: doing a
> 'kill' on a process causes SIGTERM to be sent first (which *can* be
> trapped an processed by a signal handler), and then later (after a
> system specific amount of time which appears to be 10 seconds on most
> systems), a SIGKILL is sent (which *cannot* be trapped).
>
> With me not being a Linux person however, I could of course be wrong.
>
> </nit>
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Software Development Laboratories
> http://www.softdevlabs.com
> mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
>
You might find this helpful :-
http://riccomini.name/posts/linux/2012-09-25-kill-subprocesses-linux-bash/
linux signals are a bit of a minefield.
Bill Turner
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 13:58:42 UTC
Permalink
William D ASM wrote:

[...]
> You might find this helpful :-

<snip URL; refer to original post if interested>

> linux signals are a bit of a minefield.

The same applies to Windows too, as far as orphaned child processes goes (i.e. killing parents with children). Killing HercGUI for example will leave an orphaned Hercules process running.

The general rule is all processes that spin off child processes should properly deal with those child processes whenever they (the parent) are asked to terminate. HercGUI isn't properly doing that which is the bug the OP pointed out which I need to fix.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
Ken Whitesell KenWhitesell@comcast.net [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 00:33:48 UTC
Permalink
On 2/4/2016 4:42 PM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)' ***@gmail.com
[hercules-390] wrote:
> <Much snipped>
> The protocols are slightly different since I think Windows has
> a handshake to shutdown processes while unix/linux/posix is only
> timed base (unless it is included in the init process scripts).
> Hmmm... could be a problem. Maybe. Not sure. We'll see.
>
> Maybe some of our more experienced Linux/Unix (i.e. NON-Windows) user can offer some suggestions/wisdom here?
>
> In any case, adding a bit of code to Hercules to detect when the HOST is being shutdown (and on Windows, optionally when the user is being logged off as well) is a *great* idea IMO.
>
Actually, the best way to do it is through an init script. Depending
upon the precise distribution, you can write a regular bash script that
can run any program you need to have run when you enter either runlevel
0 or 6. That script can interact with Hercules using any means
available. In most cases, you have a reasonably long period of time
allowed for that script to run. (Actually, since I'd work under the
assumption that it would be rare when you'd want to change any runlevel
and leave Hercules running, I'd be tempted to make it a global script
that would get run anytime the runlevel was being changed.

What makes it so annoying to me is that there still isn't any real
standard regarding how these init scripts are managed between distros.
You'd have to create different installation scripts for every system you
wished to support.

Ken




------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
Post message: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
List owner: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

Files and archives at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390

Get the latest version of Hercules from:
http://www.hercules-390.org


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 13:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Ken Whitesell wrote:

[...]
> Actually, the best way to do it is through an init script.

That what I got out of my limited Googling on the subject, yes.

It *could* be handled via a SIGTERM signal handler, but given the time limit constraint and other issues that isn't really the best way it seems.


[...]
> What makes it so annoying to me is that there still isn't
> any real standard regarding how these init scripts are managed
> between distros. You'd have to create different installation
> scripts for every system you wished to support.

That too is what my limited Googling turned up as well: there doesn't seem to be any official standardized system shutdown notification mechanism established for Linux (or non-Windows really). Each distro seems to have their own preferred way.

MOST disappointing. :(

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
Mike Schwab Mike.A.Schwab@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 03:08:34 UTC
Permalink
I think z/OS etc just display a message on the console. Custom
Automation to recognize the shutdown command and issue the correct
commands to your software is site specific.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 3:42 PM, ''Fish' (David B. Trout)'
***@gmail.com [hercules-390] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
> Ivan Warren wrote:
>
>> Fish
>>
>> I was more thinking in the line of something that didn't
>> require specific support from an auxiliary utility (by sending
>> specific commands using any peculiar protocol to any number
>> of hercules processes running... I happen to have systems with
>> more than one hercules system running so http is unpractical
>> at this point while event signaling can be broadcast).
>
> Why impractical? Each system can specify a different HTTP Server port (HTTP PORT config file statement: http://hercules-390.github.io/html/hercconf.html#HTTPPORT) and thus whatever command you wish to send can be sent to whichever Hercules instance desired.
>
>
>> Windows does send a "shutdown" event of some sort when it
>> shuts down (which could trigger the "ssd" (System ShutDown)
>> or "quit" (which issues the same signal and THEN triggers
>> hercules termination).
>
> Now *that's* a good idea! I'm not sure how such would be done on non-Windows systems, but on Windows at least, such a feature would be fairly trivially easy to implement. Thanks for the great idea! The obvious seems to elude me from time to time.
>
>
>> The idea is to have an ordered shutdown and a clean closure
>> of hercules for proper DASD (especially CCKD/CFBA) closing.
>
> Yep. That's the idea: a clean/orderly Hercules (and preferably guest as well) shutdown so prevent potential data loss.
>
>
>> Unix and Linux have the same protocols (through its init system)
>> which when going into shutdown mode sends signals to all processes.
>
> I'll have to do some research. (Linux is not my forte)
>
>
>> The protocols are slightly different since I think Windows has
>> a handshake to shutdown processes while unix/linux/posix is only
>> timed base (unless it is included in the init process scripts).
>
> Hmmm... could be a problem. Maybe. Not sure. We'll see.
>
> Maybe some of our more experienced Linux/Unix (i.e. NON-Windows) user can offer some suggestions/wisdom here?
>
> In any case, adding a bit of code to Hercules to detect when the HOST is being shutdown (and on Windows, optionally when the user is being logged off as well) is a *great* idea IMO.
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Software Development Laboratories
> http://www.softdevlabs.com
> mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: "\"Fish\" \(David B. Trout\)" <***@softdevlabs.com>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: hercules-390-***@yahoogroups.com
>
> Files and archives at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
>
> Get the latest version of Hercules from:
> http://www.hercules-390.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>



--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 13:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Mike Schwab wrote:

> I think z/OS etc just display a message on the console.
> Custom Automation to recognize the shutdown command and
> issue the correct commands to your software is site specific.

FYI: (z/OS):

HHC01603I ssd
HHC00002E SCLP console not receiving quiesce signals

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 20:25:42 UTC
Permalink
Ivan Warren wrote:

[...]
> I'm quite sure that under Posix systems, a signal is sent
> to indicate the system is shutting down (or that the process
> is requested to be terminated in an orderly fashion).
>
> If any of these are caught, the machine check could be sent
> (or for z/Arch systems which support them - through a SP
> function such as when "quit" is issued - requesting an orderly
> system shutdown).

It's called "Signal Shutdown" (ssd):


help ssd

Command Description
------- -------------------------------------------------------
ssd *Signal shutdown

The SSD (signal shutdown) command signals an imminent hypervisor
shutdown to the guest. Guests who support this are supposed to
perform a shutdown upon receiving this request.
An implicit ssd command is given on a hercules "quit" command
if the guest supports ssd. In that case hercules shutdown will
be delayed until the guest has shutdown or a 2nd quit command is
given. "ssd now" will signal the guest immediately, without
asking for confirmation.


and has existed in Hercules since 2003.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-04 20:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Gonzalo Martin Barrio wrote:
> Fish wrote:
> > somitcw wrote:
<snip; use script to ask Hercules to exit>

> And that's exactly what I asked earlier, but was completely
> ignored...

And so you did! My apologies, Gonzalo. I somehow missed that the first time. Must have been the words you used or the way you used them or something. Weird. (Or I was tired and skimmed through the posts too quickly.)


> oh well.
>
> Glad to know it's doable.

Yep. But it does of course require the HTTP Server be enabled. Some may consider that to be no big deal (and on the grand scheme of things I suppose it's not), but as for me I personally try to avoid running stuff -- especially network stuff -- that isn't really being used for anything.

Now yes, the HTTP Server would indeed be "being used" for something in this case, but just for the convenience of being able to shut Hercules down remotely? (i.e. from outside Hercules itself?) Just for that one thing? Nah. Not me. Especially since it binds itself to INADDR_ANY. If you could specify which interface it should bind itself to (such as to 127.0.0.1 for example) then yeah, I wouldn't mind always having it running just for the convenience. But INADDR_ANY? Nah. Not for me.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
somitcw@yahoo.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 03:11:12 UTC
Permalink
In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote:
- - - top snipped - - -
> Yep. But it does of course require the HTTP Server be enabled.
- - - bottom snipped - - -

To start something in zOS, use
a card reader
scripted 3270 like QWS3270Secure or others,
RSH,
REXEC,
FTP to JES2,
etc.

The system command needed is to start a sub-system that
shuts down all JOBs, STCs, TSO, JES2, other sub-systems,
then issues Z EOD twice, starts a script in Hercules to wait
two seconds and enters quit to flush, close, and detach all
disk volumes, and enter quiesce before the script's 2 seconds
delay before quit is up.

I don't know how to shut down HERCGUI from Windows or
zOS but suspect that there is a way.
'\'Fish\' (David B. Trout)' david.b.trout@gmail.com [hercules-390]
2016-02-05 13:25:22 UTC
Permalink
***@yahoo.com wrote:

[...]
> To start something in zOS, use
> a card reader
> scripted 3270 like QWS3270Secure or others,
> RSH,
> REXEC,
> FTP to JES2,
> etc.
>
> The system command needed is to start a sub-system that
> shuts down all JOBs, STCs, TSO, JES2, other sub-systems,
> then issues Z EOD twice, starts a script in Hercules to wait
> two seconds and enters quit to flush, close, and detach all
> disk volumes, and enter quiesce before the script's 2 seconds
> delay before quit is up.

Yes, automating externally shutting down z/OS and any other guest O/S that doesn't directly handle a quiesce signal (such as MVS, DOS, VM (but not z/VM), etc) would definitely be problematic.

The good news is however, as long as such guest O/S's are sufficiently resilient, all we'd really is a graceful way of shutting down HERCULES itself (so that emulated dasd images don't become corrupted), which is all I'm interested in at this point. Automating a graceful shutdown of the guest O/S can come later.


> I don't know how to shut down HERCGUI from Windows
> or zOS but suspect that there is a way.

"From z/OS"?! Seriously?! :)

In any case don't concern yourself about shutting down HercGUI. That's *my* responsibility and I already know how that will be (should be) handled. :)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
http://www.softdevlabs.com
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
Loading...