Discussion:
SNA Protocols
w_hecox
2004-07-25 21:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:55:00 -0000
Subject: Any time frame of introducing the SNA protocol into
hercules?
Any time frame for introducing the SNA protocol into hercules in
near or far future?
What in SNA protocol do you need? There may be a way
to accomplish it with what is available.

Bill





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seanbatson42
2004-07-26 13:31:41 UTC
Permalink
ok explain
Post by w_hecox
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:55:00 -0000
Subject: Any time frame of introducing the SNA protocol into
hercules?
Any time frame for introducing the SNA protocol into hercules in
near or far future?
What in SNA protocol do you need? There may be a way
to accomplish it with what is available.
Bill
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Ivan Warren
2004-07-26 13:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by seanbatson42
ok explain
Post by w_hecox
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:55:00 -0000
Subject: Any time frame of introducing the SNA protocol into
hercules?
Any time frame for introducing the SNA protocol into hercules in
near or far future?
What in SNA protocol do you need? There may be a way
to accomplish it with what is available.
Bill
Well.. I don't know.. Maybe you explain what is it you mean !

SNA is a high level networking protocol, and has very little to do with a
hardware emulation software.

The only thing I can relate this to is, eventually, emulating devices which
are usable by a SNA SSCP (VTAM).

If we are considering those, this is where it stands :

1 - Lan DLC access through LCS : Embryonic support. Work needs to be done.
2 - SDLC : No plans (but maybe not overly difficult)
3 - NCP In a 37xx : Nothing in the forseable future (*VERY* difficult) [1]
4 - Cross Domain CTC (arbitrary peer to peer CTC payload) : Waiting for a
volunteer

Of course, I am speaking for myself only..

--Ivan

[1] 2 possibilities :
a) Hardware emulation of a 3705/3720/3725/3745 - and upload NCP or
PEP
b) Software PU Type 4 Subarea emulation (Roll Your Own NCP..)



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seanbatson42
2004-07-26 14:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan Warren
Post by seanbatson42
ok explain
Post by w_hecox
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:55:00 -0000
Subject: Any time frame of introducing the SNA protocol into
hercules?
Any time frame for introducing the SNA protocol into hercules in
near or far future?
What in SNA protocol do you need? There may be a way
to accomplish it with what is available.
Bill
Well.. I don't know.. Maybe you explain what is it you mean !
SNA is a high level networking protocol, and has very little to do with a
hardware emulation software.
The only thing I can relate this to is, eventually, emulating
devices which
Post by Ivan Warren
are usable by a SNA SSCP (VTAM).
1 - Lan DLC access through LCS : Embryonic support. Work needs to be done.
2 - SDLC : No plans (but maybe not overly difficult)
3 - NCP In a 37xx : Nothing in the forseable future (*VERY*
difficult) [1]
Waiting for a
Post by Ivan Warren
volunteer
Of course, I am speaking for myself only..
--Ivan
a) Hardware emulation of a 3705/3720/3725/3745 - and upload
NCP or
Post by Ivan Warren
PEP
b) Software PU Type 4 Subarea emulation (Roll Your Own NCP..)
Ok work needs to be done on device option one.
What about a generic driver that interfaces to existing installed
hardware and software for SDLC equipment? something similar to the
tapecopy utility.



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Ivan Warren
2004-07-26 15:16:21 UTC
Permalink
<snip />
Post by Ivan Warren
Post by Ivan Warren
1 - Lan DLC access through LCS : Embryonic support. Work needs to
be done.
Post by Ivan Warren
2 - SDLC : No plans (but maybe not overly difficult)
3 - NCP In a 37xx : Nothing in the forseable future (*VERY*
difficult) [1]
Waiting for a
Post by Ivan Warren
volunteer
Of course, I am speaking for myself only..
--Ivan
a) Hardware emulation of a 3705/3720/3725/3745 - and upload
NCP or
Post by Ivan Warren
PEP
b) Software PU Type 4 Subarea emulation (Roll Your Own NCP..)
Ok work needs to be done on device option one.
What about a generic driver that interfaces to existing installed
hardware and software for SDLC equipment? something similar to the
tapecopy utility.
I can't see the point here... Tapecopy is really an offline utility.. Using
offline utilities for online protocols doesn't make much sense to me..

For option 1 (Lan DLC) though LCS, I don't think the problem is DLC access
(we just use frame layer) - but rather the LCS portion.

Interfacing option 2 through an Ether DLC wouldn't be too hard.. The problem
is emulating the SDLC device (basically, an ICA).

So the real problem is not communicating with the outside world, but rather
passing proper data in and out of the guest in hercules in a way that is
consistent with what is expected by programs running under hercules, from
such devices.

--Ivan



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kija
2004-07-26 18:48:49 UTC
Permalink
After OS390 V2R8 , you can use HPR/IP or Entrprise Extenter. It's the same
for SNA Protocol, just the 1,2 and 3 couche OSI are UDP. You can donwload
802.2 protocol between a router cisco 2500 and a sna-server or X25 server
and forward with snaswitchinf to the host or directly to the host. Yon don't
need hardware to make SNA or QLLC, more product emule this protocol ===>
HNAS fo X25 (SOLVE,VIRTEL,etc..) and E.E for SNA 802.2
.....................
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivan Warren" <ivan-lnHwE90NT89Ooi3Kub+***@public.gmane.org>
To: <hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Re: SNA Protocols
Post by Ivan Warren
<snip />
Post by Ivan Warren
Post by Ivan Warren
1 - Lan DLC access through LCS : Embryonic support. Work needs to
be done.
Post by Ivan Warren
2 - SDLC : No plans (but maybe not overly difficult)
3 - NCP In a 37xx : Nothing in the forseable future (*VERY*
difficult) [1]
Waiting for a
Post by Ivan Warren
volunteer
Of course, I am speaking for myself only..
--Ivan
a) Hardware emulation of a 3705/3720/3725/3745 - and upload
NCP or
Post by Ivan Warren
PEP
b) Software PU Type 4 Subarea emulation (Roll Your Own NCP..)
Ok work needs to be done on device option one.
What about a generic driver that interfaces to existing installed
hardware and software for SDLC equipment? something similar to the
tapecopy utility.
I can't see the point here... Tapecopy is really an offline utility.. Using
offline utilities for online protocols doesn't make much sense to me..
For option 1 (Lan DLC) though LCS, I don't think the problem is DLC access
(we just use frame layer) - but rather the LCS portion.
Interfacing option 2 through an Ether DLC wouldn't be too hard.. The problem
is emulating the SDLC device (basically, an ICA).
So the real problem is not communicating with the outside world, but rather
passing proper data in and out of the guest in hercules in a way that is
consistent with what is expected by programs running under hercules, from
such devices.
--Ivan
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules
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Ivan Warren
2004-07-26 19:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by kija
need hardware to make SNA or QLLC, more product emule this protocol ===>
HNAS fo X25 (SOLVE,VIRTEL,etc..) and E.E for SNA 802.2
.....................
I doubt neither COMM-PRO nor SYSPERTEC will give those for free (I know the
comm-pro folks (well, at least I used to know the 2 founders).. & roger
works for syspertec on the virtel product..(no secret, this is all from his
home page linked from the main herc page))

Anyway - as seducing those solutions may be (for your work environment) -
they may be a little too heavy for the average hobbyist...

On the other hand, some SDLC connectivity can probably be had for a few $ on
e-bay.. But no support for this as of yet...

--Ivan



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w_hecox
2004-07-26 23:23:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan Warren
Post by kija
need hardware to make SNA or QLLC, more product emule this
protocol ===>
Post by Ivan Warren
Post by kija
HNAS fo X25 (SOLVE,VIRTEL,etc..) and E.E for SNA 802.2
.....................
I doubt neither COMM-PRO nor SYSPERTEC will give those for free (I know the
comm-pro folks (well, at least I used to know the 2 founders).. & roger
works for syspertec on the virtel product..(no secret, this is all from his
home page linked from the main herc page))
Anyway - as seducing those solutions may be (for your work
environment) -
Post by Ivan Warren
they may be a little too heavy for the average hobbyist...
On the other hand, some SDLC connectivity can probably be had for a few $ on
e-bay.. But no support for this as of yet...
--Ivan
You can buy a used CISCO 2500 pretty cheap. Do a SDLC or DLC to
SNASW conversion and your in bussiness. All the SNA you should ever
need can run over Enterprise Extender. You could easily do a Hercules
MVS SNA APPL to Hercules MVS SNA APPL without a router. I do not see
the point of SNA support.

I repeat my question. What is the SNA requirement?

Bill

Bill



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Greg Smith
2004-07-27 00:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by w_hecox
I repeat my question. What is the SNA requirement?
Good question. My feeling is that people want to use
ctc connections for jes2 nje or multiple instances in a
jes3 complex(?). I don't remember when grs became
available, but that may be a possibility too. So I don't
think it's so much an SNA issue as a CTC issue.

I could be wrong (like that's ever stopped me before ;-)
but I guess it would be helpful to get a consensus on
the requirements. I'm not sure, but I think that updating
some of the existing ctc protocols to allow for non-tcpip
traffic would not be that bad. Ivan and others, of course,
will correct me if I'm all wet about that.

Greg



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halfmeg
2004-07-27 11:22:19 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
I don't remember when grs became available, ...
<snip>
Have seen it mentioned in a MVS SP Version 2 Release 1 General
Information manual. It is in the section: Summary of MVS/System
Product Version 1 Functions in Version 2.

Phil - Doesn't that put it pretty close to 3.8j



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Greg Price
2004-07-27 12:20:18 UTC
Permalink
I'd say SP1.2 or 1.3.
That's when GQSCAN first appeared.

GP
Post by halfmeg
<snip>
I don't remember when grs became available, ...
<snip>
Have seen it mentioned in a MVS SP Version 2 Release 1 General
Information manual. It is in the section: Summary of MVS/System
Product Version 1 Functions in Version 2.
Phil - Doesn't that put it pretty close to 3.8j
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