Discussion:
"Bad Page Dataset" question
(too old to reply)
jr_garrett
2003-11-06 20:14:01 UTC
Permalink
I'm a new Hercules user. I did search the message archives prior to
posting this, but if this is something that "everyone knows" then my
apologies in advance.

I'm running Hercules 3.00 with Cygwin 1.5.5_1 under WinXP (current
maintenance) with EIDE disk. My configuration specifies 1 CP, non-
CCKD disk (3390's), no shared DASD support, ESA/390 mode. On two
occasions now I've experienced a failure a few hours after IPL that
results in a 'bad page dataset' and is accompanied in the Hercules
log by equipment check messages to the effect of 'attempt to read
past the end of track'. The last failure resulted in a disabled wait
x'02E'. (Sorry I don't have the exact message text with me - it's at
home and I'm not).

Questions: Is this a commonly known problem with an equally known
solution, perhaps a configuration issue on Hercules or Cygwin? Is
there a utility that will validate the files used as DASD volumes
prior to use? Is there an easy way to recover from this problem
(other than just using the O/S to build fresh page datasets)?

Thanks for your time,
Rob



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Greg Smith
2003-11-06 22:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by jr_garrett
I'm running Hercules 3.00 with Cygwin 1.5.5_1 under WinXP (current
maintenance) with EIDE disk. My configuration specifies 1 CP, non-
CCKD disk (3390's), no shared DASD support, ESA/390 mode. On two
occasions now I've experienced a failure a few hours after IPL that
results in a 'bad page dataset' and is accompanied in the Hercules
log by equipment check messages to the effect of 'attempt to read
past the end of track'.
Sheesh, I saw this message a couple hours ago and thought, like the
pot of petunias, `oh no not again'. Then noticed the `non-' before
the `CCKD' on the preceding line.

Ok, looks like a badly formatted track. The messages should indicate
the track number (or cyl/head). You can use Jan's zzsa program to
display the track. Hmmmm - thinking again, I wonder if this is the
track that crosses the 2G boundary (for 3390-3) ?? That would be
around track 37807. I don't know the status of large files on cygwin;
I think new cygwin supports them, but I'm not sure about the binary
executables ??

Greg


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Adam Thornton
2003-11-06 23:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Someone has a Linux/390 system (under VM) he's running Hercules on. On
that system he has some disk packs with S/370 software on it. Can he
just attach the device to Hercules?

By that I mean:

Let's say he's got device 1047 as a 3390-1. He ATTACHES the 1047 to his
Linux guest machine (let's say at 1047). It shows up as
/dev/dasd/1047/device.

Now, can he just do the following in hercules.cnf?

1047 3390 /dev/dasd/0147/device

If not, how hard would it be to add raw (CKD, but FBA would be cool too)
device support to Hercules?

Adam




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somitcw
2003-11-07 05:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Thornton
Someone has a Linux/390 system (under VM) he's running
Hercules on. On that system he has some disk packs with
S/370 software on it. Can he just attach the device to
Hercules?
Let's say he's got device 1047 as a 3390-1. He ATTACHES
the 1047 to his Linux guest machine (let's say at 1047).
It shows up as /dev/dasd/1047/device.
Now, can he just do the following in hercules.cnf?
1047 3390 /dev/dasd/0147/device
If both copies of Hercules need to share the disk,
I suggest that you use SHRDPORT. Documented in:
http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/hercconf.html
Post by Adam Thornton
If not, how hard would it be to add raw (CKD, but
FBA would be cool too) device support to Hercules?
Adam
Hercules 3.0 added some raw disk slice support.
It's documented for FBA in the above referenced link.
I don't know if CKD code is there yet?


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Adam Thornton
2003-11-07 06:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by somitcw
If both copies of Hercules need to share the disk,
http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/hercconf.html
?

Only one copy of Hercules.

Real S/390 disk -> ATTACH it to VM guest (i.e. dedicated device, not
minidisk) -> visible in Linux -> added to Herc as raw device.
Post by somitcw
Hercules 3.0 added some raw disk slice support.
It's documented for FBA in the above referenced link.
I don't know if CKD code is there yet?
Anyone?

I'm happy to make one of my Debian/390 images a guinea pig for this....

Adam


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pa3efu
2003-11-07 06:21:56 UTC
Permalink
Adam,
This should work for FBA devices, we would have to do some extra work
in linux/390 and hercules to make CKD work.

Jan.
Post by Adam Thornton
Post by somitcw
If both copies of Hercules need to share the disk,
http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/hercconf.html
?
Only one copy of Hercules.
Real S/390 disk -> ATTACH it to VM guest (i.e. dedicated device, not
minidisk) -> visible in Linux -> added to Herc as raw device.
Post by somitcw
Hercules 3.0 added some raw disk slice support.
It's documented for FBA in the above referenced link.
I don't know if CKD code is there yet?
Anyone?
I'm happy to make one of my Debian/390 images a guinea pig for this....
Adam
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Adam Thornton
2003-11-07 06:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by pa3efu
Adam,
This should work for FBA devices, we would have to do some extra work
in linux/390 and hercules to make CKD work.
How much extra work are we looking at? It would be pretty cool, I
think. I remember seeing some dismay on the L/390 list a few days ago
that the DASD driver returns the key in-band; is "fixing the ECKD driver
in Linux" part of that work?

Adam


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Norman Hollander
2003-11-06 23:09:10 UTC
Permalink
I've had this happen before. Especially if the OS was
crashed
or Hercules was crashed, and the Disk file was not properly
closed. I usually run CCKDCDSK on the volume before
IPL-ing.
I also keep multiple formatted Page Data Sets on the Page
volumes
just in case. The real challenge is with LPA and CSA, if
you don't have
multiples. If you do, at IPL time, if the page data set is
bad you can
specify the alternate. If it's the Local, you can do a Page
Del, reformat it,
and Page Add it. I've had the saem thing happen on an HFS
file. Backups do
come in handy...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Smith" <gsmith-***@public.gmane.org>
To: <hercules-390-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 SYSA-D 2:57 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hercules-390] "Bad Page
Dataset" question
Post by Greg Smith
Post by jr_garrett
I'm running Hercules 3.00 with Cygwin 1.5.5_1 under
WinXP (current
Post by Greg Smith
Post by jr_garrett
maintenance) with EIDE disk. My configuration specifies
1 CP, non-
Post by Greg Smith
Post by jr_garrett
CCKD disk (3390's), no shared DASD support, ESA/390
mode. On two
Post by Greg Smith
Post by jr_garrett
occasions now I've experienced a failure a few hours
after IPL that
Post by Greg Smith
Post by jr_garrett
results in a 'bad page dataset' and is accompanied in
the Hercules
Post by Greg Smith
Post by jr_garrett
log by equipment check messages to the effect of
'attempt to read
Post by Greg Smith
Post by jr_garrett
past the end of track'.
Sheesh, I saw this message a couple hours ago and thought,
like the
Post by Greg Smith
pot of petunias, `oh no not again'. Then noticed the
`non-' before
Post by Greg Smith
the `CCKD' on the preceding line.
Ok, looks like a badly formatted track. The messages
should indicate
Post by Greg Smith
the track number (or cyl/head). You can use Jan's zzsa
program to
Post by Greg Smith
display the track. Hmmmm - thinking again, I wonder if
this is the
Post by Greg Smith
track that crosses the 2G boundary (for 3390-3) ?? That
would be
Post by Greg Smith
around track 37807. I don't know the status of large
files on cygwin;
Post by Greg Smith
I think new cygwin supports them, but I'm not sure about
the binary
Post by Greg Smith
executables ??
Greg
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Greg Smith
2003-11-07 00:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Hollander
I've had this happen before. Especially if the OS was
crashed
or Hercules was crashed, and the Disk file was not properly
closed. I usually run CCKDCDSK on the volume before
IPL-ing.
I also keep multiple formatted Page Data Sets on the Page
volumes
just in case. The real challenge is with LPA and CSA, if
you don't have
multiples. If you do, at IPL time, if the page data set is
bad you can
specify the alternate. If it's the Local, you can do a Page
Del, reformat it,
and Page Add it. I've had the saem thing happen on an HFS
file. Backups do
come in handy...
Hmmm... they do. Yes, if the computer, or the os, or hercules
crashes, then you just might have a problem. Especially if you
use cckd disks, which you might if you use cckdcdsk. There have
been recent changes where recently freed space is not reused for
a while (20 or so seconds I'm thinking), that is, each write
writes to somewhere else. If you can recreate this problem
consistently (without the crashes), then I suggest specifying
`cckd trace=100000' in the config file or on the hercules
console before IPLing. When the error occurs, if the trace doesn't
print automatically, type `cckd trace' on the hercules console.
Volker has indicated that he has had some problems recently using
cckd disks but not shadow files, which I am looking into. I suggest
(strongly, I might add) using shadow files. Then you may be able
to recover faster.

Greg


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jr_garrett
2003-11-07 04:54:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Hollander
I've had this happen before. Especially if the OS was
crashed
or Hercules was crashed, and the Disk file was not properly
closed.
Thanks for the tip, that might be it. I'm not using CCKD, but I have
been guilty of shutdown by just yanking the rug instead of being nice
and orderly about it. I'll restore the damaged volumes and be more
careful, then see what happens.

Rob



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